Re: Is it posible to become dependent on CPAP?
Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:55 am
For some reason or other, naturists are rarely depicted skiing.
A Forum For All Things CPAP
https://www.cpaptalk.com/
Have you ever noticed that those "Get one with nature" posts always show nice weather without any black flies or mosquitoes? They never show people wading through the mud, in a fine drizzle, while filtering a cloud of black flies through their teeth or trying to cook while the sleet and snow is hitting them in the face.chunkyfrog wrote:For some reason or other, naturists are rarely depicted skiing.
Did your doctor tell you that 30 is considered severe? I don't know if your events are short or long, or how bad your desaturations are, but even of those two are low, the number of events is high enough to be severe. Even surgery has a low level of success for people with severe sleep apnea.rkuntz wrote:To help here are some answers to help put the Topic in context and answer some of the honest questions raised.
My Doc wants me off CPAP because happily is one of those who is an advocate of minimal intervention.
Sleep Lab result was +30 AHI baseline.
It sounds like your cpap treatment is working great! But keep in mind that, like medication, cpap is a daily therapy, it is does not cure. Your ahi *with cpap* is NOT the same as your ahi *without* cpap. The only way to know if your untreated ahi has improved is to get a new sleep study. If you quit cpap at some point without a new sleep study, you could go right back to severe sleep apnea without knowing it. Lowering pressures is great as that can be more comfortable, and monitoring your data will help you stay on track and keep you from cutting back too much.
It made my Doc's day, I mean he was really happy when he was able to halve my BP Meds, and eliminate the Statin after I lost 30 lbs. Additionally my 30 day AHI avg. has dropped from 5.5 to 3.5 with that weight loss and he's talking about lowering pressures.
Very few people here use a machine with ventilator ability. We have the regular cpap and apap machines that simply splint the airway open for us. We do all the work ourselves. I don't mind being dependent on a machine to help me sleep better. It's better than the crappy sleep I got without it. It's no worse than needing a rescue inhaler for my asthma in case I encounter a bad allergy that sets me off. Or taking blood pressure medication., Though I probably could have avoided those medications had I not spent 10 years in denial, refusing to address my sleep apnea. Instead, I waited until it got severe and made my blood pressure pretty severe too. That was my fault.
My response to those with the snarky comments is that denial and fear of sleeping without out mechanical ventilation can be, in and of themselves, signs of dependency. If you need to and can, loss some weight, explore Ketogenic diets, get on your feet and Sing. Can't hurt, might help.
Citations?ems wrote: It [OSA] can be controlled but once your throat muscles (if that's the reason you have SA in the first place) start to sag, not a thing is going to stop it from continuing to droop.
Your definition of dependency is wrong. It is a layman's misconception. With severe OSA you need a cpap machine to function or even stay alive. That you are concerned about this is natural. Your wife is wrong. Any one who has their air cut off will become anxious, any first aid course will tell you that. The reason for this is that humans are completely dependent on air in order to live. Should we try to over come that "dependency" or "addiction" to O2 because "dependency is wrong"?rkuntz wrote:
Dependency is a complicated issue physical vs psychological vs malignant vs benign vs many other characteristics. My Wife thinks I'm dependent because she's seen the fear I experience if I don't have my machine. Objective evidence of this is that I panicked and drove home for hours in a life threatening zero visibility blizzard this winter rather than overnight in a Hotel without my beloved CPAP machine.
Yes those “Sleep Doctors” often seem to be doing that.rkuntz wrote:The Sleep Tech was good and he told me that +30 was severe, the Doc was a no show (sleeping?).
I am running near those numbers myself. Sounds like you are doing with CPAP about as good as can be currently done with CPAP.rkuntz wrote: Had the decimal points in the wrong places earlier, actually my treated AHI has dropped from .55 to .35 with weight loss.
So about 20% of those with OSA are of normal body weight. And about 20% of those with fatty liver disease are of normal body weight. I have become suspicious that there is ALWAYS a metabolic connection.rkuntz wrote: Regarding weight gain caused by Apnea vs. Apnea caused by weight gain, to me it sounds like a metabolic linkage exists so you need to treat both if you have both.
I don't think the problem is that we don't know. The problem is the question itself doesn't really make sense to most of us. Dependent just means relying on something else, which is kind of assumed when talking about life saving medical treatments. We would all prefer to breathe regularly on our own at night without artificial assistance. Unfortunately, we can't. For most people there is no effective cure, as most OSA is NOT primarily caused by being overweight and surgeries have a very low success rate. Therefore, we have a choice. We can live a shorter life with impaired quality, increased blood pressure, raised risk of heart attack and stroke, depression, memory loss, daytime fatigue, brain damage, impaired concentration, poor work performance, and changes in the concentration of leptin, the hormone that affects appetite and metabolism (yes, the OSA often starts first and causes the weight gain instead of the weight gain causing the OSA as most people assume). Or we can live longer and healthier with improved quality of life by using a medical device to alleviate the symptoms of the generally incurable condition. Most of us are here because we strongly prefer the second option. And because the machine alleviates the symptoms rather than fixing the root causes, we are dependent on continued use of the machine to continue reaping the benefits it delivers. We are all dependent on the machine. But the machine didn't make us dependent.rkuntz wrote:Apparently no around here knows if a physical dependency on CPAP therapy, which could make things worse can develop, so that is a partial answer in itself for my original question.
In the sense that fear tends to lower the arousal threshold and also to raise the ventilatory control system gain and since low arousal threshold and high ventilatory control system gain are two nonanatomic features which cause OSA[1] I can easily agree.rkuntz wrote:Psychologically speaking, in all probability fear of dependency is one of the major reasons why compliance levels are so low for CPAP...
Please do not be too hard on your friend. As explained above many many people find CPAP unusable. What bothers me about this group is that when you bring up the reasons why CPAP is unusable for many many people they head for denial or attack you (as one in denial might).rkuntz wrote: ...and this group as a whole doesn't seem to recognize that. This fear of dependency can be a bad thing in and of itself. I know because I delayed therapy for years and I have a dear friend who's machine sits idle as he sacrifices both the quantity and quality of the balance of his life.