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Re: Engineer, and I'm curious if I can help

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:42 pm
by avi123
Take a look at this recent thread if you can help:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=90172&p=829010#p829010

Re: Engineer, and I'm curious if I can help

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:48 pm
by MyIdaho
DreamStalker wrote:Nobody has been burned. Ask all the surveys you want, many here have plenty to complain about. How exposing what company you work for will create a bias on complaints about masks I have no clue.
Really, you can't see any potential issues? Here's one. Let's say he works for company xyz and 20 people report in complaining about one of their masks. A person new to cpap therapy could read that thread and conclude that the mask was a poor choice yet it may actually work well for the individual. There is a risk if newbies form opinions based on blog posts versus trying it themselves or review ratings on say cpap.com. And no, I don't work for company xyz...

Re: Engineer, and I'm curious if I can help

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:49 pm
by enghelp
jilliansue wrote:I have never been able to find a FFM to fit me without leaks driving me crazy and/or having to be tightened to the point of pain. I have tried quite a few. I use a nasal mask and a chinstrap.

I think that as soft and pliable a material as possible for the mask cushion is the way to go. Helps with comfort and helps keep the mask sealed during changes in position. I don't mind having to give the occasional tug during the night, but I do not want to have to repeatedly tug and re-seat the mask, only to have it start leaking again.

The gel of the Comfort Gel and the Soft Gel are comfortable, but a bit heavy. Currently I use the Activa LT, which is lighter and still seals pretty well.

I would like to see more masks made that can be molded more to the individual face.

I have just gotten the Wisp, and have just received a Pad-A-Cheek liner for it which I am going to use tonight. I like small, minimalistic masks. After using the Swift FX for awhile, I did not really like having the air blown directly up my nostrils. Hence, I have high hopes for the Wisp.

What I really would like to see, and which is out of your area, is an alternate treatment to CPAP for OSA!

Thank you,
Jill

FF masks being heavy is a very common complaint. we are working on that with each new iteration. Amara from Philips and Quatro Air from ResMed are new and they are the lightest FF masks ever. You may have better luck with one of those. Thanks for the feedback through.

As for other therapy there is, dental appliances, the new Winx as well but I am very dubious of that as their video shows the obstruction between the nose and mouth where every other video I have ever seen shows the obstuction below the mouth in the throat. but if it works it could be a nice alternative

Re: Engineer, and I'm curious if I can help

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:53 pm
by Blindrage
One of the main problems people with FFM complain about is jaw drop causing leaks or other therapy issues. A few companies like F&P and Hans Rudolph have tried to address this by extending the chin piece to seal lower on the face than the indent between the lips and chin, but that has only been partly successful. Other users have had success with getting a better seal by using the anti-leak strap or a strap to help keep the mouth closed with some success.

The other issue with FFMs can be facial hair and movement at night.

I personally have no issue with tolerating the masks, so my greatest wish would be masks with a much better seal. Nasal masks are a total no-go for me due to sinus issues, so my only choice is FFM.

My current mask of choice is the F&P Forma, but I just got the Quattro Air. I love the way the Air feels, but my machine seems to not like it much since it sets of a pressure alarm every time I try it. Still working on that issue.

An issue with the Air specifically is that the air seems to blow directly at my mouth when wearing it. My mouth dries out much easier using the Quattro Air when compared to the Forma.

Re: Engineer, and I'm curious if I can help

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:53 pm
by jilliansue
I was referring to nasal masks Comfort Gel and Soft Gel being heavy, due to the gel. I am sure their full face counterparts are even heavier!

I have hated all the full face masks I have used because:

1. It felt like there was a lot more air rushing in than with a nasal mask.
2. The air went into my mouth as well as my nose, puffing my cheeks and drying my mouth.
3. They leaked like a sieve.

Jill

Re: Engineer, and I'm curious if I can help

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:57 pm
by DreamStalker
MyIdaho wrote:
DreamStalker wrote:Nobody has been burned. Ask all the surveys you want, many here have plenty to complain about. How exposing what company you work for will create a bias on complaints about masks I have no clue.
Really, you can't see any potential issues? Here's one. Let's say he works for company xyz and 20 people report in complaining about one of their masks. A person new to cpap therapy could read that thread and conclude that the mask was a poor choice yet it may actually work well for the individual. There is a risk if newbies form opinions based on blog posts versus trying it themselves or review ratings on say cpap.com. And no, I don't work for company xyz...
Well I suppose I need to set the newbies straight right here and now.

FACT 1: EVERY MASK WILL FIT EVERY PERSON DIFFERENTLY
FACT 2: THE MASK IS THE KEY TO SUCCESSFUL THERAPY, THEREFORE KEEP TRYING TIL YOU FIND THE ONE THAT YOU CAN SLEEP WITH ALL NIGHT LONG AND WILL NOT LEAK.
FACT 3: READ FACT 1 AND REMEMBER THAT WHAT ONE PERSON SAYS ABOUT ANY SPECIFIC MASK MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU (ie. STAY AWAY FROM CPAP MASK RATINGS).

There. That should take care of an stray newbies from getting misdirected. However my point still stands ... how is said engineer going to help improve masks developed by his competitors?

Re: Engineer, and I'm curious if I can help

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:04 pm
by enghelp
avi123 wrote:Take a look at this recent thread if you can help:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=90172&p=829010#p829010

responded but I have no idea how to hyperline back to it. anyone wana teach me?

Re: Engineer, and I'm curious if I can help

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:08 pm
by DreamStalker
enghelp wrote:
avi123 wrote:Take a look at this recent thread if you can help:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=90172&p=829010#p829010

responded but I have no idea how to hyperline back to it. anyone wana teach me?
When you post or reply, there is a "URL" tag button above the box where you write the text. Click on that and then copy paste the link in between the URL tags.

Re: Engineer, and I'm curious if I can help

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:09 pm
by enghelp
Blindrage wrote:One of the main problems people with FFM complain about is jaw drop causing leaks or other therapy issues. A few companies like F&P and Hans Rudolph have tried to address this by extending the chin piece to seal lower on the face than the indent between the lips and chin, but that has only been partly successful. Other users have had success with getting a better seal by using the anti-leak strap or a strap to help keep the mouth closed with some success.

The other issue with FFMs can be facial hair and movement at night.

I personally have no issue with tolerating the masks, so my greatest wish would be masks with a much better seal. Nasal masks are a total no-go for me due to sinus issues, so my only choice is FFM.

My current mask of choice is the F&P Forma, but I just got the Quattro Air. I love the way the Air feels, but my machine seems to not like it much since it sets of a pressure alarm every time I try it. Still working on that issue.

An issue with the Air specifically is that the air seems to blow directly at my mouth when wearing it. My mouth dries out much easier using the Quattro Air when compared to the Forma.
Interesting, thank you. Are their any masks that you know of that "absorb" movement better than others to prevent leaks?

Re: Engineer, and I'm curious if I can help

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:13 pm
by Uncle_Bob
Hi

I didnt know they did any CPAP product related development in England.
My main complaint is with a manfufacturer who changed the quality of a major mask mask part, the nasal pillows on a nasal pillow mask.
The made the silicone thinner so the pillows collapsed after a significantly shorter period of time so they could sell more pillows.
Several people noticed this when it happened.

~UB

Re: Engineer, and I'm curious if I can help

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:15 pm
by enghelp
DreamStalker wrote:
MyIdaho wrote:
DreamStalker wrote:Nobody has been burned. Ask all the surveys you want, many here have plenty to complain about. How exposing what company you work for will create a bias on complaints about masks I have no clue.
Really, you can't see any potential issues? Here's one. Let's say he works for company xyz and 20 people report in complaining about one of their masks. A person new to cpap therapy could read that thread and conclude that the mask was a poor choice yet it may actually work well for the individual. There is a risk if newbies form opinions based on blog posts versus trying it themselves or review ratings on say cpap.com. And no, I don't work for company xyz...
Well I suppose I need to set the newbies straight right here and now.

FACT 1: EVERY MASK WILL FIT EVERY PERSON DIFFERENTLY
FACT 2: THE MASK IS THE KEY TO SUCCESSFUL THERAPY, THEREFORE KEEP TRYING TIL YOU FIND THE ONE THAT YOU CAN SLEEP WITH ALL NIGHT LONG AND WILL NOT LEAK.
FACT 3: READ FACT 1 AND REMEMBER THAT WHAT ONE PERSON SAYS ABOUT ANY SPECIFIC MASK MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU (ie. STAY AWAY FROM CPAP MASK RATINGS).

There. That should take care of an stray newbies from getting misdirected. However my point still stands ... how is said engineer going to help improve masks developed by his competitors?
If you read my posts thus far I am suggesting masks from all companies to try and help people here. I do this 1 because I care about the people, my dad doesn't sleep on a mask from my company becasue the best one for him was a competitor. and 2. I am man enough to know that each company has strengths and weeknesses.

hearing about issues with any mask helps all masks as they are all developed to do the same thing. provide therapy, we constantly do competitive benchmakring to learn what everyone is doing right and what everyone is doing wrong to help more paopel and help our sales.

Re: Engineer, and I'm curious if I can help

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:19 pm
by enghelp
Uncle_Bob wrote:Hi

I didnt know they did any CPAP product related development in England.
My main complaint is with a manfufacturer who changed the quality of a major mask mask part, the nasal pillows on a nasal pillow mask.
The made the silicone thinner so the pillows collapsed after a significantly shorter period of time so they could sell more pillows.
Several people noticed this when it happened.

~UB
I have not heard this before, my guess is the walls were thined out for comfort, not so they would fail but i can't say that for sure. Can you suggest a pillows mask that is a good quality pillow that people like?

Re: Engineer, and I'm curious if I can help

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:46 pm
by DreamStalker
enghelp wrote:
DreamStalker wrote:
MyIdaho wrote:
DreamStalker wrote:Nobody has been burned. Ask all the surveys you want, many here have plenty to complain about. How exposing what company you work for will create a bias on complaints about masks I have no clue.
Really, you can't see any potential issues? Here's one. Let's say he works for company xyz and 20 people report in complaining about one of their masks. A person new to cpap therapy could read that thread and conclude that the mask was a poor choice yet it may actually work well for the individual. There is a risk if newbies form opinions based on blog posts versus trying it themselves or review ratings on say cpap.com. And no, I don't work for company xyz...
Well I suppose I need to set the newbies straight right here and now.

FACT 1: EVERY MASK WILL FIT EVERY PERSON DIFFERENTLY
FACT 2: THE MASK IS THE KEY TO SUCCESSFUL THERAPY, THEREFORE KEEP TRYING TIL YOU FIND THE ONE THAT YOU CAN SLEEP WITH ALL NIGHT LONG AND WILL NOT LEAK.
FACT 3: READ FACT 1 AND REMEMBER THAT WHAT ONE PERSON SAYS ABOUT ANY SPECIFIC MASK MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU (ie. STAY AWAY FROM CPAP MASK RATINGS).

There. That should take care of an stray newbies from getting misdirected. However my point still stands ... how is said engineer going to help improve masks developed by his competitors?
If you read my posts thus far I am suggesting masks from all companies to try and help people here. I do this 1 because I care about the people, my dad doesn't sleep on a mask from my company becasue the best one for him was a competitor. and 2. I am man enough to know that each company has strengths and weeknesses.

hearing about issues with any mask helps all masks as they are all developed to do the same thing. provide therapy, we constantly do competitive benchmakring to learn what everyone is doing right and what everyone is doing wrong to help more paopel and help our sales.
Competitive benchmarking .... in terms of sales or efficacy or compliance? What kind of benchmarking?

If you read my facts for newbies, I'm suggesting that all masks will fit different people differently ... so how can all masks fit all people to provide the same effective therapy? No can do.

If you want to improve the mask design(s) that you actually have any influence on, it would be in the best interest of everyone (users and engineers alike) and more efficient to focus on the issues of those particular masks. Jumping around from nasal cushions to nasal pillows to full-face to hybrids to prongs to all the other types of different vendors when you only work on one or two specific masks of a single vendor just makes this thread useless.

Re: Engineer, and I'm curious if I can help

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:09 pm
by jaybeem
Make a vent that can be directed any direction the mask wearer wants it to point. Then the ability to lock it into that position.

Both masks I have used vent out at about a 45 degree angle. So if I position the hose down towards my body, the vent exhaust bounces off the bed clothes and my body if I don't encase myself in the sheets. If I position the hose up towards the headboard, the vent exhaust disperses air towards my eyes.

Re: Engineer, and I'm curious if I can help

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:19 pm
by jdm2857
I think the Breeze, where the hose comes down over the forehead, ran the vent tube up
along the main air tube so that the vent air was aimed straight up over the head.