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Re: Attorney-urges-Congress-end-sleep-apnea-claims-abuse

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:31 am
by DreamStalker
Todzo wrote:
meagain wrote:Sleep apnea is a treatable condition, not a disability. I use a cpap to treat it. I also have an eye condition...nearsited. I wear eyeglasses to treat it.

But if the treatment works less than half the time, perhaps much less than that!!!!!????.....

As well many of those treated post here saying it is doing little for them or even that they do better not using the treatment.

We do not have a good answer for sleep apnea at this time.
CORRECTION!

Todzo does not have a good answer for his sleep apnea at this time ... most likely because he does not understand the physiology of sleep apnea and thinks his is caused by too much CO2 blood saturation ... but even more likely because he is just too involved with his delusions of being an OSA expert.

Re: Attorney-urges-Congress-end-sleep-apnea-claims-abuse

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:39 pm
by Todzo
Preparing letter to congress people and others - "long term cpap adherence" is a good pubmed search term. Yielded this and others: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23713371

Re: Attorney-urges-Congress-end-sleep-apnea-claims-abuse

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:50 pm
by NateS
Todzo wrote:Preparing letter to congress people and others - "long term cpap adherence" is a good pubmed search term. Yielded this and others: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23713371
A study like this one, done completely in the State of Israel, may be interesting, but there are all sorts of challenges there with respect to the availability and cost of electricity, attitudes towards medicine, civilian transportation, military and security issues, percentage of population in military service, etc. which are not necessarily comparable to the US.

Do you have a comparable study performed in the US?

Regards, Nate

Re: Attorney-urges-Congress-end-sleep-apnea-claims-abuse

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:56 pm
by Todzo
“Well-designed prospective trials to elucidate long term compliance with CPAP machine are rare.” (see: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23713371 ).

Indeed most of the “good” research seems to be from other than U.S. (well, when they are not led astray by the U.S. “help”).

Indeed is seems that once the long term objective studies started to roll in the medical community stopped doing them!?!?!?!

I guess when the going gets tough, the medical community runs for cover.

Note to self: write congress to insist that the medical community stop hiding the truth about the long term use of CPAP!!! Add that vets with OSA need a fair consideration with current research. Write the Attorney and Congressmen mentioned with the same request adding that even current research shows the problem with examples.

Re: Attorney-urges-Congress-end-sleep-apnea-claims-abuse

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:59 pm
by chunkyfrog
You do that.

Re: Attorney-urges-Congress-end-sleep-apnea-claims-abuse

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:24 pm
by NateS
Todzo wrote:….
Why keep repeating the same thing over and over again? It seems as if we are being subjected to an attack of repetitious, obsessive/compulsive behavior by one individual lacking in self-control.

This is very sad.

Re: Attorney-urges-Congress-end-sleep-apnea-claims-abuse

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:32 pm
by chunkyfrog
You noticed that too?

Re: Attorney-urges-Congress-end-sleep-apnea-claims-abuse

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:44 pm
by exmpscooterb
You should be thanking a Vet for allowing you to have the free speech you have. It's an all volunteer Military these days so RESPECT those who gave up the EASY CIVILIAN LIFE to defend you. Those of us who have served and are currently serving today SHOULD be given the top of the line medical care but yet our government would much rather give some ILLEGAL and DEAD BEAT WELFARE ABUSER better and free care and slash our care and treatment. Sleep disorders are caused be many different things. You try sleeping at night after spending 12 months getting shot at and afraid to fell asleep wondering if your gotta get attacked and see what affect that has on your mind. Those of us who have served and are currently in service to our country don't complain and whine like civilians do. We do what is asked of us and drive on. I have more respect a lonely Private fighting overseas then the whole of Congress/Senate and The President. Don't screw with us Vet's. It just might come back to bite you in the long run.

Re: Attorney-urges-Congress-end-sleep-apnea-claims-abuse

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:41 pm
by Todzo
zoocrewphoto wrote:
Todzo wrote:Apparently it [CPAP] simply does not work for most.
You are confusing the issues.

You are giving a statement about people who were issued a machine and quit using it. That is completely different from whether the machine (properly set and used consistently) gives good therapy.
Let’s remember what this discussion is all about. An attorney and congressman are saying that the 50% disability rating for Sleep Apnea is unreasonable. So then how much CPAP can be used and how effective it actually is becomes critical to those who need support.

My consideration as I write here is those who are commended to CPAP therapy. I believe that is the vast majority of those whose PSGs find moderate to severe sleep apnea. I also know that the doctors are getting wiser about who is likely to fail CPAP. I probably should have included those who were not commended to CPAP since they are now known likely to fail as well.

I am looking to find out how many can actually get working care here. If they cannot then the sleep apnea will simply slowly take them down.

I am starting to work toward real long term numbers of how many and how well people can actually be treated. Real numbers, long term.
zoocrewphoto wrote: CPAP does work when the settings are right and the person uses it.
I would call this a presumption.

How long are the settings likely to remain “the right settings”? Are some settings questionable in terms of being “the right settings”? How can you know this? What proof do you have?
zoocrewphoto wrote: People fail for many reasons. Some are in denial and looking for any excuse to quit using it. Some have bricks and don't know that their settings are not providing enough therapy. Some were handed one mask and told to go home and use it, never realizing that they can try other masks. There are lots of reasons for people to quit. Many have to do with doctors and DMEs who don't help. That does not mean that the actual method of therapy (cpap) doesn't work.
What it actually does mean is that it did not work.
zoocrewphoto wrote: For those who push pas the struggles, it usually works great.
Again, your presumption.

I believe that most of the struggles people have to use CPAP relate directly to incompatible breathing reflexes. I believe that these make the therapy unusable and perhaps harmful. Prove me wrong if you can.
zoocrewphoto wrote: Don't you realize that when you post that cpap doesn't work for most people, it just encourages all those in denial to simply quit? You are sending them into that category that fails, because you told them to expect failure.
I have not told anyone that their therapy would fail.

In addition you have no proof that those in denial would simply quit. They would, however, have a better idea of what they are actually dealing with.

Please stop hiding the truth from those who need it. You do them wrong.
zoocrewphoto wrote: Yet most people who come here and get help do find success.
This sounds like wishful thinking. Proof please.

From what I have observed some get help. Some do not. For some the help works for a small time. Who knows what happens to them all long term?
zoocrewphoto wrote: Why don't you encourage people to succeed rather than tell them they will fail?
I have not told anyone they would fail.

I have encouraged many to succeed here and other places.

I simply want people to know the truth so they have that to use real data to make real good decisions.

There are a lot of class action suits against pharmaceutical companies because they did not tell people the truth. Will we see those against the manufacturers of CPAPs in the future? Will they include the doctors? Will they include the doctor’s staff?
zoocrewphoto wrote: Why do you stay here if you think people are doomed to fail?
Because, obviously, I do not believe they are doomed to fail as you accuse me.

I also know that most are “doomed to fail” if things are left as they are. So please stop trying to make yourself comfortable by keeping things in the dark. Let us bring them out into the light.

May we both have good thoughtful weeks!

Todzo

Re: Attorney-urges-Congress-end-sleep-apnea-claims-abuse

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:17 pm
by mollete
Todzo wrote:May we both have good thoughtful weeks!
Actually, I was kinda hoping that this week you'll die a horrible death, preferably one involving fire.

Re: Attorney-urges-Congress-end-sleep-apnea-claims-abuse

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:24 pm
by mollete
mollete wrote:
Todzo wrote:May we both have good thoughtful weeks!
Actually, I was kinda hoping that this week you'll die a horrible death, preferably one involving fire.
Or acid.

Acid would be good.

Re: Attorney-urges-Congress-end-sleep-apnea-claims-abuse

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:36 pm
by BlackSpinner
mollete wrote:
mollete wrote:
Todzo wrote:May we both have good thoughtful weeks!
Actually, I was kinda hoping that this week you'll die a horrible death, preferably one involving fire.
Or acid.

Acid would be good.
LSD?

I think you are kind of over reacting. Find something herbal to smoke or chew on.

Re: Attorney-urges-Congress-end-sleep-apnea-claims-abuse

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:52 pm
by mollete
BlackSpinner wrote:LSD?
No, I was thinking more like "battery" acid.

Re: Attorney-urges-Congress-end-sleep-apnea-claims-abuse

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:25 pm
by BlackSpinner
mollete wrote:
BlackSpinner wrote:LSD?
No, I was thinking more like "battery" acid.
I think you are over the line here.
I don't agree with him but "I will defend to death his right to say it" without what are basically death threats.
The fact that he is pigged head and totally wrong is irrelevant even if it is annoying.

Re: Attorney-urges-Congress-end-sleep-apnea-claims-abuse

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:41 pm
by NateS
BlackSpinner wrote:
mollete wrote:
BlackSpinner wrote:LSD?
No, I was thinking more like "battery" acid.
I think you are over the line here.
I don't agree with him but "I will defend to death his right to say it" without what are basically death threats.
The fact that he is pigged head and totally wrong is irrelevant even if it is annoying.
+1

Nate