CPAPtalk.com

49er wrote:
Thanks for correcting me on that ackpapguy. But it still seems the issues are the same. If a problem was created or exacerbated by military service but is fully resolved with cpap treatment, in my opinion, that should not lead to a disability payment.

Again, I have no problem with payments if there are any lingering issues such as EDS and cognitive problems. But if someone is fully functional after receiving pap treatment, getting disability payments doesn't seem right.

49er

First, a person is diagnosed on active duty with a condition that requires the use of a machine for the rest of their life, that is why they are compensated by the VA. Just because the condition is treated by the machine does not take away from the fact that the vet now must live with it forever. Just like the vet who gets his leg amputated. They give him a prosthetic leg, so in your mind, he should not be compensated either. Seriously, some of the responses I've read in this thread are ridiculous. I would have never thought I'd see this coming from people who have actually experienced OSA.

pootsie wrote:It also appears that apnea may be associated with Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI).
http://www.google.com/search?output=sea ... afe=active

TBI is a common problem with vets who have seen combat that otherwise left no visible mark. Contrary to my earlier, sarcastic post, I truly believe they are entitled to everything we can give them.

If you haven't seen Jon Stewart's Daily Show rants on VA admin., you should check it out. (Even if you think he is a horrible person because he's a libby commie pinko, and all that, you may find yourself agreeing with him on that issue. Just google Daily Show and VA.)

Sorry for the guest post above. I didn't realize I was not yet registered.

This is my case. I had a TBI 10 months ago. Still receiving treatment. Messed me up pretty good. vestibular damage(balance), severe cognitive deficits, memory loss, migraines, and a few other issues. I'm pretty much out of the fight for a long while. I was also just diagnosed with OSA. I haven't slept more then a few hours a day since my accident. I'm still waiting to get my machine, and hoping to find a mask that doesn't go on the nose since my nose still don't work.
50% rating certainly isn't my motive. Plus, what most people don't realize is that 50% don't always mean 50% in VA math. It could actually mean anywhere from 50% to 0% depending on other conditions the vet has.

Guest wrote:

49er wrote:
Thanks for correcting me on that ackpapguy. But it still seems the issues are the same. If a problem was created or exacerbated by military service but is fully resolved with cpap treatment, in my opinion, that should not lead to a disability payment.

Again, I have no problem with payments if there are any lingering issues such as EDS and cognitive problems. But if someone is fully functional after receiving pap treatment, getting disability payments doesn't seem right.

49er

First, a person is diagnosed on active duty with a condition that requires the use of a machine for the rest of their life, that is why they are compensated by the VA. Just because the condition is treated by the machine does not take away from the fact that the vet now must live with it forever. Just like the vet who gets his leg amputated. They give him a prosthetic leg, so in your mind, he should not be compensated either. Seriously, some of the responses I've read in this thread are ridiculous. I would have never thought I'd see this coming from people who have actually experienced OSA.

Fair point. Actually, as one who has not adjusted to pap therapy, I do understand and I apologize if my posts came across as insensitive.

But at the same time, during the rare times I stayed asleep for significant amount of time on the machine, I functioned better than I had in my whole life. I don't doubt anyone would have made that comment about a prosthetic leg. That is why I wrote what I did.

49er

I work with a bunch of ex-Navy guys (no females). I can say that is definitely a joke to them and they play the system for their benefit. I am not taking a side as to whether it is right/wrong, but in my experience it is a money-maker for some of them.

keynola wrote:I work with a bunch of ex-Navy guys (no females). I can say that is definitely a joke to them and they play the system for their benefit. I am not taking a side as to whether it is right/wrong, but in my experience it is a money-maker for some of them.

As one who has contended with Obstructive Sleep Apnea for many years I find your statement hard to believe.

keynola wrote:I work with a bunch of ex-Navy guys (no females). I can say that is definitely a joke to them and they play the system for their benefit. I am not taking a side as to whether it is right/wrong, but in my experience it is a money-maker for some of them.

Since they put their life on the line for the system, I don't see the issue with that.

Todzo wrote:

keynola wrote:I work with a bunch of ex-Navy guys (no females). I can say that is definitely a joke to them and they play the system for their benefit. I am not taking a side as to whether it is right/wrong, but in my experience it is a money-maker for some of them.

As one who has contended with Obstructive Sleep Apnea for many years I find your statement hard to believe.

I just got diagnosed with OSA and started using a CPAP, to my displeasure. I'm not making this up to be a troll. People take advantage of things for personal gain all the time; ex-military personnel are no different. One of the guys I work with is on 100% disability from the Navy. He makes more off that than he does with our company. Once again, I'm not judging because I appreciate what he's done for us. But he's definitely not "disabled" as we usually think of the term.

keynola wrote:

Todzo wrote:

keynola wrote:I work with a bunch of ex-Navy guys (no females). I can say that is definitely a joke to them and they play the system for their benefit. I am not taking a side as to whether it is right/wrong, but in my experience it is a money-maker for some of them.

As one who has contended with Obstructive Sleep Apnea for many years I find your statement hard to believe.

I just got diagnosed with OSA and started using a CPAP, to my displeasure. I'm not making this up to be a troll. People take advantage of things for personal gain all the time; ex-military personnel are no different. One of the guys I work with is on 100% disability from the Navy. He makes more off that than he does with our company. Once again, I'm not judging because I appreciate what he's done for us. But he's definitely not "disabled" as we usually think of the term.

I suppose that the damage done by sleep apnea is not always easy to see. Much of any job is repetitive. Much of conversation is repetitive. If the person can rely on what they know by rote they will do ok. But if the job demands something new or unusual – well – early in the day maybe ok – perhaps early in the week OK all day – BUT – fatigue enters into to this in a major way to where the affected pathways simply stop working. Working memory peters out, problem solving same thing. Loss of the ability to suppress the first response may have the person snapping back at you. You and he or she will be shocked at some of the “solutions” they come up with. “What on earth were you thinking” will be your thought as you both try to deal with the results. He or she will be thinking the same thing later in the evening or a few days later.

May your treatment go well, for all of our sakes!

Todzo

Absolutely -- it's outrageous. +$1B in costs to the taxpayers as a result of this scam, they should definitely put an end to such fraud and abuse of the system. How many other crippled servicemen cant get the services they need because of these folks trying to take advantage of the system to get 'disability' payments. This is wrong on so many levels. Shame on anyone who does this.

Todzo wrote:

49er wrote: if someone is fully functional after receiving pap treatment

Some studies, as you know, show only 20% are able to use CPAP for more than 4 hours a night at the one year mark. But let us be generous and say that perhaps 50% are able to do that.
But of that 50% how many still suffer from excessive daytime sleepiness? How many have undetected respiratory effort related arousals? How many still have lots of apneas and hypopneas from unmanaged pressures?
Probably the 50% disability is based on actual data.

I really don't think your 20% is an accurate study. Maybe some time ago,and maybe among people who don't get any help from their DME or doctor. But these days, with data and the internet, it is much easier to get the help that is needed to make it work. Most people CAN make it work if they put in the effort AND get real help, such as this forum.

The way you throw at that number all the time, it sounds like cpap just won't work for most people, and that isn't true. It does work, *IF* people use it. The problem isn't the cpap treatment. The problem is adjusting to the treatment.

Please stop implying that the treatment doesn't work for 80% of people. The truth is that lots of people don't even put any effort into trying it. Many are in denial. And many who did try didn't get any help in adjusting.

zoocrewphoto wrote:

Todzo wrote:

49er wrote: if someone is fully functional after receiving pap treatment

Some studies, as you know, show only 20% are able to use CPAP for more than 4 hours a night at the one year mark. But let us be generous and say that perhaps 50% are able to do that.
But of that 50% how many still suffer from excessive daytime sleepiness? How many have undetected respiratory effort related arousals? How many still have lots of apneas and hypopneas from unmanaged pressures?
Probably the 50% disability is based on actual data.

I really don't think your 20% is an accurate study. Maybe some time ago,and maybe among people who don't get any help from their DME or doctor. But these days, with data and the internet, it is much easier to get the help that is needed to make it work. Most people CAN make it work if they put in the effort AND get real help, such as this forum.

The way you throw at that number all the time, it sounds like cpap just won't work for most people, and that isn't true. It does work, *IF* people use it. The problem isn't the cpap treatment. The problem is adjusting to the treatment.

Please stop implying that the treatment doesn't work for 80% of people. The truth is that lots of people don't even put any effort into trying it. Many are in denial. And many who did try didn't get any help in adjusting.

At the end of the day you or I do not know if even 20% reach good levels of treatment. It may well be that bad!!!

I think the current 50% disability for Sleep Apnea in the military population is likely generous to the tax payers.

Todzo wrote: At the end of the day you or I do not know if even 20% reach good levels of treatment. It may well be that bad!!!

I think it is BS. For many people using cpap puts them in much much better shape. I know within 3 months of starting cpap I was writing better code then I had in years, understanding the stuff I was researching and designing better art. I was speaking French fluently again and getting my Dutch back. In essence I was back to where I had been a decade before.

BlackSpinner wrote:

Todzo wrote: At the end of the day you or I do not know if even 20% reach good levels of treatment. It may well be that bad!!!

I think it is BS. For many people using cpap puts them in much much better shape. I know within 3 months of starting cpap I was writing better code then I had in years, understanding the stuff I was researching and designing better art. I was speaking French fluently again and getting my Dutch back. In essence I was back to where I had been a decade before.

I am very glad that CPAP works for you BlackSpinner. But I have never found any research that indicates more than 50% were able to use CPAP effectively (more than four hours a night) at the one year mark and most way under that mark.

Apparently it simply does not work for most.

Todzo wrote: I am very glad that CPAP works for you BlackSpinner. But I have never found any research that indicates more than 50% were able to use CPAP effectively (more than four hours a night) at the one year mark and most way under that mark.

Apparently it simply does not work for most.

The rate of use effective use for cpap machines is much higher for pilots and truck drivers - in other words motivation makes a huge difference according to Dr Parks. It is not that it doesn't work for 50% of people, it is that 50% of people can't be bothered to try to make it work for them. Of the 8 people I personally know who use a cpap machine only one felt that way, the others took to it like a duck to water. I know one other person who is having problems but he had burnt his lungs in a chemical accident years ago so can not be considered a "regular" user.

hyperlexis wrote:Absolutely -- it's outrageous. +$1B in costs to the taxpayers as a result of this scam, they should definitely put an end to such fraud and abuse of the system. How many other crippled servicemen cant get the services they need because of these folks trying to take advantage of the system to get 'disability' payments. This is wrong on so many levels. Shame on anyone who does this.

Don't believe everything you read. There is no way to scam it. You have to have a sleep study showing apnea and a doc prescribing a xpap. Last time I checked there is no way to fake sleep apnea. Some people have done the at home studies, but if they are positive, then they are required to have a lab study. So, unless there is a lot of service members, doctors, and sleep techs at all the various military hospitals all participating in this cam, it isn't happening.

There are issues with how the VA does ratings for some things. Some are too high, some too low, but this article is rediclous to try to call out one condition and act like they are going to save the government piggy bank. Sleep apnea compensation isn't even a top 10 for VA compensation.