CPAPtalk.com

49er wrote:

chunkyfrog wrote:I find this line revealing:
" . . . Most of these individuals had never filled their original CPAP prescription" (of the patients who were not compliant)
---They didn't even TRY!
Not surprisingly, much of the "doesn't work" "data" comes from the marketers of alternate treatment or surgical "cures"
(got to stop reading that crap)

Those statistics were from the smaller study in which 25 patients (31%) didn't fill their initial prescription. Reasons were as broken down in the table:

Disliked CPAP during titration trial 11 (44)
No perceived need by patient 10 (40)
Unable to afford CPAP 3 (12)
Alternate treatment sought 3 (12)

For the one with 1211 patients, 52 refused to try it which comes out to 4.5% of the total.

Thanks Pugsy for the links to these studies.

49er

To add to that I hated bipap. Bipap st and asv in my titration. But the unit they set me with is fine. No issues there.

The first study is over a decade old.

From the second study:

Our study had several limitations. We did not have follow-up data on those patients who refused to be interviewed. However, the number in this group was very small. One might suspect that these individuals are less likely to be satisfied with CPAP If anything, their inclusion would likely increase the rate of non-compliance. A further limitation of our study was that it was subjective and relied on patients’ responses to our questionnaires to determine compliance. No attempt was made to objectively verify or quantitate CPAP use. Subjects may have falsely reported compliance with treatment, or have overestimated CPAP use. Previous studies have found that self-reported compliance rates are higher than those obtained by objective monitoring of CPAP use. Thus, it is conceivable that our long-term compliance rate was actually lower, approaching or falling below the 50% level.

So we are still looking for a study that actually shows better than 50%

Come on, you can do better than that!!

nanwilson wrote:Finally, perhaps Todzo will now stop trying to fill everyone's brain with his drivel.

Not a chance. After he crawls out of fetal position he'll overcompensate and post even more.

However, this gives me idea for the whole concept of this compliance thing...

From the more current study mentioned:
CONCLUSIONS
We have identified distinct populations among patients diagnosed with OSA and prescribed CPAP. Slightly more than one-half of these patients remained compliant and highly satisfied with treatment at long-term follow-up. However, approximately one-half of all such individuals had either not accepted or abandoned CPAP use …

But remember this is also from the study:
Our study had several limitations. We did not have follow-up data on those patients who refused to be interviewed. However, the number in this group was very small. One might suspect that these individuals are less likely to be satisfied with CPAP If anything, their inclusion would likely increase the rate of non-compliance. A further limitation of our study was that it was subjective and relied on patients’ responses to our questionnaires to determine compliance. No attempt was made to objectively verify or quantitate CPAP use. Subjects may have falsely reported compliance with treatment, or have overestimated CPAP use. Previous studies have found that self-reported compliance rates are higher than those obtained by objective monitoring of CPAP use. Thus, it is conceivable that our long-term compliance rate was actually lower, approaching or falling below the 50% level.

So we are indeed still looking.

By all means, keep on looking!!!!!!

Todzo wrote: By all means, keep on looking!!!!!!

Not me...I am done. I don't feel the need to prove anything.
You want me to prove to you?....hey....how about you proving to me? Fair is fair.
I knew you would find fault with an older study even though it was quite comprehensive. It didn't agree with your tunnel visioned mind set.
You can go ahead and keep spouting off your opinions and someone here will come along right behind you and challenge you.

Me...I am done with you. Some people just have no common sense at all and you pretty much are the lone person on my such list.

I don't use my Foe list often except for people who just post garbage and useless stuff just to argue. Congratulations...you made that list too.

Todzo wrote:From the more current study mentioned:
CONCLUSIONS
We have identified distinct populations among patients diagnosed with OSA and prescribed CPAP. Slightly more than one-half of these patients remained compliant and highly satisfied with treatment at long-term follow-up. However, approximately one-half of all such individuals had either not accepted or abandoned CPAP use …

But remember this is also from the study:
Our study had several limitations. We did not have follow-up data on those patients who refused to be interviewed. However, the number in this group was very small. One might suspect that these individuals are less likely to be satisfied with CPAP If anything, their inclusion would likely increase the rate of non-compliance. A further limitation of our study was that it was subjective and relied on patients’ responses to our questionnaires to determine compliance. No attempt was made to objectively verify or quantitate CPAP use. Subjects may have falsely reported compliance with treatment, or have overestimated CPAP use. Previous studies have found that self-reported compliance rates are higher than those obtained by objective monitoring of CPAP use. Thus, it is conceivable that our long-term compliance rate was actually lower, approaching or falling below the 50% level.

So we are indeed still looking.

By all means, keep on looking!!!!!!

We need to become sincere in our pursuit of the truth. Willful ignorance is not an option. People need true data to help them make good decisions.

You have no idea what the simple truth is when it comes to cpap therapy.... you are so arrogant that you have to have the last word.

Todzo wrote: We need to become sincere in our pursuit of the truth. Willful ignorance is not an option. People need true data to help them make good decisions.

Since some one deleted my post

Truth is saying "Over half of people who try will be successful and benefit from xpap therapy"

Most = 90% half = 50% a failure rate of 46% as quoted in the big study done 10 years ago with people using much more difficult to use equipment = over half the people are successful. This is not the same as your constant statement of "Most people can't use xpap therapy" in fact that statement is a blatant lie.

Wilful ignorance is choosing NOT to use cpap and that is the ignorance we need to tackle and you are not being helpful at all by your anti cpap propaganda.

Todzo wrote:

Todzo wrote:From the more current study mentioned:
CONCLUSIONS
We have identified distinct populations among patients diagnosed with OSA and prescribed CPAP. Slightly more than one-half of these patients remained compliant and highly satisfied with treatment at long-term follow-up. However, approximately one-half of all such individuals had either not accepted or abandoned CPAP use …

But remember this is also from the study:
Our study had several limitations. We did not have follow-up data on those patients who refused to be interviewed. However, the number in this group was very small. One might suspect that these individuals are less likely to be satisfied with CPAP If anything, their inclusion would likely increase the rate of non-compliance. A further limitation of our study was that it was subjective and relied on patients’ responses to our questionnaires to determine compliance. No attempt was made to objectively verify or quantitate CPAP use. Subjects may have falsely reported compliance with treatment, or have overestimated CPAP use. Previous studies have found that self-reported compliance rates are higher than those obtained by objective monitoring of CPAP use. Thus, it is conceivable that our long-term compliance rate was actually lower, approaching or falling below the 50% level.

So we are indeed still looking.

By all means, keep on looking!!!!!!

We need to become sincere in our pursuit of the truth. Willful ignorance is not an option. People need true data to help them make good decisions.

I do hope that people really do look for themselves at the research. People play with the numbers a lot. I think the 20% finding is likely the most honest!!!

Why don't you just allow yourself to stop using CPAP rather than resorting to quoting yourself on statistics of CPAP compliance?

You would make yourself and everyone else on this forum feel much better about their OSA.

Todzo,

Your concerns about adequate followup care in the sleep medicine community are definitely valid but that is a different issue than whether the treatment is effective or not as people have tried to point out to you. Anyway, instead of trying to engage in a fruitless argument on this board in trying to have the last word, why not go to your local sleep centers and make some proposals for improvement? It just seems like that would be a better use of your time. Just my opinion.

49er

49er wrote:Todzo,

Your concerns about adequate followup care in the sleep medicine community are definitely valid but that is a different issue than whether the treatment is effective or not as people have tried to point out to you.

When a government official calls into question whether the 50% disability standard for our service men is appropriate the fact that the best hope for treatment of sleep apnea, xPAP, works for less than half of those medically commended to it becomes profoundly important!

Honestly, I like service people. I appreciate their service, very very risky as it can be. I want them to get a fair shake.

49er wrote: Anyway, instead of trying to engage in a fruitless argument on this board in trying to have the last word, why not go to your local sleep centers and make some proposals for improvement? It just seems like that would be a better use of your time. Just my opinion.

49er

I know that little will be done here, too many trolls.

I am writing my congress people and will likely contact other organizations as well.

Take care,

Todzo

nanwilson wrote:You have no idea what the simple truth is when it comes to cpap therapy.... you are so arrogant that you have to have the last word.

Actually I have looked into the studies and encourage all to do so.

We need to stop trying to hide the truth here!!!

I actually have not posted much even in my own thread here. To those I did not get back to apologies. I simply do not have the time.

Todzo wrote:Actually I have looked into the studies and encourage all to do so.

Clearly, the studies do show "the truth":

Success Rates in the Treatment of Obstructive Sleep Apnea in Adults

meagain wrote:Sleep apnea is a treatable condition, not a disability. I use a cpap to treat it. I also have an eye condition...nearsited. I wear eyeglasses to treat it.

But if the treatment works less than half the time, perhaps much less than that!!!!!????.....

As well many of those treated post here saying it is doing little for them or even that they do better not using the treatment.

We do not have a good answer for sleep apnea at this time.