CPAPtalk.com

If there is blame ... it is the profit motive of the corporate fascist health system. Not the sick people who fail to use the system.

It is more profitable to keep people sick than to cure or prevent sickness in the first place.

Take the profit out of the corporate health industry and "people" both the medical professionals and the patients alike will seek out optimal health solutions.

Like the war on drugs ... take the profit out of the drug cartels and military industrial security complex and the drug problem will seek the optimal solution to resolve itself.

Considering that CPAP use falls below 50% able to use the machine for at least four hours a night at the one year mark ---
Considering that CPAP is our best known hope --
Considering that those who do use CPAP for more than four hours a night still complain of or have symptoms --

I really do believe that the 50% disability for a Sleep Apnea diagnosis is at least fair.

Todzo wrote:Considering that CPAP use falls below 50% able to use the machine for at least four hours a night at the one year mark ---
Considering that CPAP is our best known hope --
Considering that those who do use CPAP for more than four hours a night still complain of or have symptoms --

I really do believe that the 50% disability for a Sleep Apnea diagnosis is at least fair.

Where do you get your statistics... you are really stuck on 50% number arn't you. If you repeat it often enough do you think that folks will believe you?
Not me, nor many here.

nanwilson wrote:

Todzo wrote:Considering that CPAP use falls below 50% able to use the machine for at least four hours a night at the one year mark ---
Considering that CPAP is our best known hope --
Considering that those who do use CPAP for more than four hours a night still complain of or have symptoms --

I really do believe that the 50% disability for a Sleep Apnea diagnosis is at least fair.

Where do you get your statistics... you are really stuck on 50% number arn't you. If you repeat it often enough do you think that folks will believe you?
Not me, nor many here.

I think it would be good for you to actually look into the medical research. Then you can answer my challenge - perhaps?

Show me a current study which shows that more than 50% of those medically commended to xPAP are using it for more than four hours a night at the one year mark.

I am not here to do your research for you. It works so much better if you do this for yourself.

Until then I say:

Most people cannot use CPAP

We do not have a good answer for sleep apnea at this time

deleted....
It just irks me that you are feeding this drivel to the newbies as if it were gospel. You are giving them a poor excuse to quit.

nanwilson wrote:deleted....
It just irks me that you are feeding this drivel to the newbies as if it were gospel. You are giving them a poor excuse to quit.

We need to deal with the truth. We need to give people the real numbers so that they know what they are getting into. Fraud and malpractice are not an option.

Todzo wrote:
Until then I say:

Most people cannot use CPAP

We do not have a good answer for sleep apnea at this time

How many times do you have to be corrected on this? 50% is not "most people" and of that 50% "most" won't use it - not "can't use it"

WE have a better answer then xpap - a tracheotomy - it is 100% effective and has no problems with people tossing it in the closet.

Todzo wrote:

nanwilson wrote:deleted....
It just irks me that you are feeding this drivel to the newbies as if it were gospel. You are giving them a poor excuse to quit.

We need to deal with the truth. We need to give people the real numbers so that they know what they are getting into. Fraud and malpractice are not an option.

But you are not dealing with the truth!

BlackSpinner wrote:

Todzo wrote:

nanwilson wrote:deleted....
It just irks me that you are feeding this drivel to the newbies as if it were gospel. You are giving them a poor excuse to quit.

We need to deal with the truth. We need to give people the real numbers so that they know what they are getting into. Fraud and malpractice are not an option.

But you are not dealing with the truth!

I think there is something wrong with him. You know, mentally.

Show me a recent study which shows that more than 50% of those medically commend to CPAP are using it for more than four hours a night at the one year or greater mark if you can.

Otherwise admit that most people cannot use CPAP.

Otherwise admit that we do not have a good solution to sleep apnea at this time.

THIS

Todzo wrote:Show me a recent study which shows that more than 50% of those medically commend to CPAP are using it for more than four hours a night at the one year or greater mark if you can.

is not the same as THIS

Otherwise admit that most people cannot use CPAP.

or THIS

Otherwise admit that we do not have a good solution to sleep apnea at this time.

You just failed logic 101 as taught by Sesame Street.

AND 50% does not equal "MOST"!

Spoken like someone who spent years writing code!

Todzo wrote:Show me a recent study which shows that more than 50% of those medically commend to CPAP are using it for more than four hours a night at the one year or greater mark if you can.

You know, I got really tired of you telling people to go find a study...so I went and looked just to see how hard it was to find a study that showed greater than 50% compliance long term.
Okay...it's old study over 10 years ago and I don't have time to go reading through a lot more stuff but if anything usage should be better because cpap therapy has come a long way in terms of comfort since this study.
Do you really think that things are so much worse now that you have to dwell on new or old study???
Where is your common sense? Never mind...I know where it is.

This is the first one I found and I don't have time to go looking any further nor do I see any need to do so. It wasn't hard to find. I am surprised that you haven't seen it yourself but since it doesn't back up your thoughts it doesn't surprise me that you wouldn't mention it.
If any one wants to borrow the link to address the challenge in the other threads...go right ahead. I don't have time to go and respond to each one of those separately.

http://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10. ... .4.9807111

This snip was taken from the end of the article from the "discussion" comments...there's more there.

"This large follow-up study with a high rate of ascertainment shows that continuing CPAP usage is related to the severity of subjective sleepiness and to the apnea plus hypopnea frequency. Continuing CPAP usage at 3 yr occurred in 86% of patients with an AHI ⩾ 30 and an Epworth sleepiness rating of > 10. Our previous studies have shown that patients with mild SAHS and AHI between 5 and 15/h benefit from treatment (22), but this study showed that many such patients abandon CPAP, especially if they are not “subjectively” sleepy. Further, long-term use can be predicted most reliably by the average nightly use of the CPAP machine during the first 3 mo. The study also showed that patients using CPAP for less than 2 h per night at 3 mo are unlikely to continue with long-term treatment. Overall CPAP use in those taking CPAP home was 68% at 5 yr. Patients continued to abandon CPAP during the first 4 to 5 yr of treatment, in contrast to our clinical impression that those who continued using CPAP after the first few months tended to use it long-term. Although patients are less likely to abandon CPAP the longer they have been using it, many (n = 63; 29%) stop the treatment after 1 yr. Similarly, Krieger and colleagues (17) found that 20% of those who stop treatment do so after 1 yr."

Edit
Here's one from 2008 that followed 80 people..small study...and 54 % were still using after the 5 year mark.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2679572/

I find this line revealing:
" . . . Most of these individuals had never filled their original CPAP prescription" (of the patients who were not compliant)
---They didn't even TRY!
Not surprisingly, much of the "doesn't work" "data" comes from the marketers of alternate treatment or surgical "cures"
(got to stop reading that crap)

chunkyfrog wrote:I find this line revealing:
" . . . Most of these individuals had never filled their original CPAP prescription" (of the patients who were not compliant)
---They didn't even TRY!
Not surprisingly, much of the "doesn't work" "data" comes from the marketers of alternate treatment or surgical "cures"
(got to stop reading that crap)

Those statistics were from the smaller study in which 25 patients (31%) didn't fill their initial prescription. Reasons were as broken down in the table:

Disliked CPAP during titration trial 11 (44)
No perceived need by patient 10 (40)
Unable to afford CPAP 3 (12)
Alternate treatment sought 3 (12)

For the one with 1211 patients, 52 refused to try it which comes out to 4.5% of the total.

Thanks Pugsy for the links to these studies.

49er