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Re: Why did you choose cpap over the OA?

Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 4:49 pm
by NateS
jnk wrote:I take issue with the word "significant" in the copy, though. "Significant" is a word and concept that is often misused. It usually means "mathematically significant" or "statistically significant" to the writer but generally reads as "medically significant" or "leading to meaningful ultimate outcomes" to the audience, including the newspaper people who try to report on the product. That verbal slight of hand is designed to mislead unless aimed at other researchers. And it works. Whenever I see that trick in print in an ad for the public, it makes me lose all respect for the product and the company, myself. And when I see a newspaperman fall for the trick, or misunderstand the use of the word as used in research documents, I tend to lose respect for him and his paper. The question is, " 'Significant' in what sense and when being compared to what?"
This is exactly how statin therapy was sold to the medical profession. Instead of saying "Out of thousands and thousands of people on statins, only two died of a heart condition instead three dying in the equally-sized control group" the drug industry sold it as "A 50% reduction in heart-related deaths!"

Regards, Nate

Re: Why did you choose cpap over the OA?

Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 4:55 pm
by Space Oddity
docjl wrote: They do not work as well if patients lie on their side.
It means full-time professional liars sell more of these devices as compared to liars who just do it on the side.

Half kidding.

The device might work for you if you can tolerate it. A good sleep dentist is able to examine the anatomy of individuals and make an estimate of whether it will work or not for each individual.

You pretty much have to try one to know whether it works. And then are you willing to have another sleep study to check the effectiveness?

I prefer CPAP because the machine data shows me every morning whether it worked. You won't have that with a MAS.

Re: Why did you choose cpap over the OA?

Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 5:22 pm
by NateS
What do folks think about ResMed getting into this area?

http://www.resmed.com/us/products/narva ... c=patients
Narval™ CC is a new treatment option for sleep apnea
For sufferers of sleep apnea and snoring, the Narval CC provides comfort and relief. It’s a custom-made oral appliance known as a mandibular repositioning device (MRD). The device gently holds the lower jaw in a forward position when worn during sleep to alleviate symptoms of sleep apnea.

Narval CC is designed to ensure comfort and effective treatment. It’s a new option in sleep therapy that uses state-of-the-art technology to maximize comfort and fit. It’s less invasive and more comfortable than other treatments, and the result is highly effective therapy for sleep apnea and snoring. Once a person is tested at a sleep lab, their physician may refer them to a dentist to have this custom device made.

Discover the benefits of Narval CC
Discrete, comfortable and effective
Narval’s proprietary design offers one of the lightest mandibular repositioning devices available
Minimal bulk ensures comfort in the mouth
Designed to reduce tooth sensitivity
Design offers freedom to talk and drink because the mouth is not "locked-in"
Patented technology makes it easy to close the mouth and breathe during sleep*

Could Narval CC work for you?
If you think you might have sleep apnea, take our Sleep Quiz. Share the results with your doctor to see you if should be tested for sleep apnea. If you’re diagnosed, ask your doctor about Narval CC to see if it could help you on your journey to healthy sleep.
If you are already diagnosed with sleep apnea, consult your physician about the option to add Narval CC to your treatment options. For nights where CPAP does not suit your circumstances, MRD treatment with Narval CC may keep you treated.

Learn More
Narval CC Patient Brochure

* Geraads et al. First intention management of obstructive sleep apnea syndrome (OSAS) by custom-made mandibular advancement device: the medium-term results. Prospective study by the General Hospital Pneumologists College (CPHG). Rev Pneumol Clin 2010;66(5):284-292
Regards, Nate

Re: Why did you choose cpap over the OA?

Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 5:33 pm
by NateS
Note that the ResMed pamphlet quotes, without explanation, only the medium-term results.

I found the long-term results here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/1 ... 23/related
Mandibular advancement device in patients with obstructive sleep apnea : long-term effects on apnea and sleep.

AuthorsMarklund M, et al. Show all Journal
Chest. 2001 Jul;120(1):162-9.

Affiliation
Department of Orthodontics, Umeå University, Umeå, Sweden. Marie.Marklund@odont.umu.se

Abstract
STUDY OBJECTIVES: To evaluate the long-term effects on apneas and sleep and the tolerability of a mandibular advancement device in patients with obstructive sleep apnea.

DESIGN: Prospective study.

SETTING: Department of Respiratory Medicine, University Hospital, Umeå, Sweden.

PATIENTS: Thirty-three consecutively treated patients.

INTERVENTIONS: Individually adjusted mandibular advancement devices. Measurements and results: Polysomnographic sleep recordings on 1 night without the device and 1 night with the device were performed after 0.7 +/- 0.5 years (mean +/- SD) and after 5.2 +/- 0.4 years from the start of treatment. Nineteen of the 33 patients experienced a short-term satisfactory treatment result with an apnea-hypopnea index of < 10 events per hour and a satisfactory reduction in snoring. Fourteen patients were regarded as being insufficiently treated with the device. Seventeen of the short-term satisfactorily treated patients (90%) and 2 of the remaining patients continued treatment on a long-term basis. The apnea-hypopnea index was reduced by the device from 22 +/- 17 to 4.9 +/- 5.1 events per hour (p < 0.001) in these 19 long-term treatment patients, which did not differ from what was found at the short-term follow-up visits in these patients. Patients with their devices replaced or adjusted experienced a better long-term effect than patients still using their original devices (p < 0.05).

CONCLUSIONS: The long-term effect and tolerability of a mandibular advancement device are good in patients who are recommended the treatment on the basis of a short-term sleep recording, provided that the device is continuously adjusted or replaced with a new one when needed. A short-term follow-up is valuable in the selection of patients who will benefit from long-term treatment with a mandibular advancement device.

PMID 11451833 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Regards, Nate

Re: Why did you choose cpap over the OA?

Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 5:49 pm
by SleepingUgly
NateS wrote:
SleepingUgly wrote:The reason I'm going to be getting a MAD is because I have intractable aerophagia with CPAP, at pressures considerably lower than what I am prescribed, and having tried EVERYTHING, it is not improving. So my choices are to continue with PAP and continue to suffer with EDS and poor quality of life, or try a MAD and hope it will address my EDS. (Or in the worst of both worlds scenario, do the two together. Oh. My. God.)
To be sure, have your aerophagia symptoms been been confirmed as NIV/CPAP induced, in this manner?"
In the case of aerophagia during NIV, it is normally diagnosed by experienced medical specialists who check on patients intermittently during NIV use. The diagnosis is based on the sound heard by listening through a stethoscope placed outside the abdominal cavity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerophagia
Respectfully, Nate
Are you asking whether my aerophagia has been diagnosed by an "experienced medical specialist" checking on me during "noninvasive vent" use by listening through a stethoscope placed outside the abdominal cavity?! Um, yes, as a matter of act. Although I'm not sure I'd call it a "stethoscope". Or my "abdominal" cavity. Or "outside". But otherwise, definitely yes!

Re: Why did you choose cpap over the OA?

Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 5:56 pm
by NateS
SleepingUgly wrote:
Are you asking whether my aerophagia has been diagnosed by an "experienced medical specialist" checking on me during "noninvasive vent" use by listening through a stethoscope placed outside the abdominal cavity?! Um, yes, as a matter of act. Although I'm not sure I'd call it a "stethoscope". Or my "abdominal" cavity. Or "outside". But otherwise, definitely yes!
That's all I meant, SU. Since you mentioned the possibility of a worst case outcome, I was just wondering whether your doctor was able to diagnosis the condition as being caused or aggravated while under CPAP.

Good luck with your quest for relief!

Regards, Nate

Re: Why did you choose cpap over the OA?

Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:18 pm
by SleepingUgly
OK, I guess my joke wasn't a good one. It's pretty obvious that my aerophagia is related to CPAP because it only happens on CPAP and is highly correlated with pressure.

Re: Why did you choose cpap over the OA?

Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 9:42 pm
by idamtnboy
docjl wrote:hi
I know everyone here is on cpap, and I'm still debating. So, would you mind sharing why you choose cpap over the OA?
I didn't really choose CPAP over OA, I choose it over being sleepy much of the daytime. Additional benefits are I take an afternoon nap mostly because I WANT TO, not because I HAVE TO, and having to get up to go the bathroom zero to an occasional once per night instead of 2 to 4 times every night.

You've got probably a 99% chance of overcoming the difficulties associated with using a CPAP if you set your mind to it. To paraphrase Abe Lincoln, "A man is about as adjusted to his CPAP as he makes up his mind to be."

Re: Why did you choose cpap over the OA?

Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 9:48 pm
by SleepyonMagnoliaSt
I'd definitely choose CPAP over OA. I have no teeth lmao and I have no want to sleep with an OA

Re: Why did you choose cpap over the OA?

Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:48 pm
by SleepingUgly
SleepyonMagnoliaSt wrote:I have no teeth lmao
I hope you are kidding! After your traumatic experience with maxillary expansion and orthodontia, you better have teeth!

Re: Why did you choose cpap over the OA?

Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:58 pm
by SleepyonMagnoliaSt
SleepingUgly wrote:
SleepyonMagnoliaSt wrote:I have no teeth lmao
I hope you are kidding! After your traumatic experience with maxillary expansion and orthodontia, you better have teeth!
Nope I wish so much that I was joking. When they pulled off my braces? Half of my enamel went with it. Guess what! I have weak enamel. After 12 years and over $14,000 I had to have everything pulled last September I'm now a toothless wonder

Re: Why did you choose cpap over the OA?

Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 4:20 pm
by SleepingUgly
SleepyonMagnoliaSt wrote:Nope I wish so much that I was joking. When they pulled off my braces? Half of my enamel went with it. Guess what! I have weak enamel. After 12 years and over $14,000 I had to have everything pulled last September I'm now a toothless wonder