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Statistically, most cancer diagnoses increase with age--geometrically.
Back when the average person died before 40, there was very little cancer.
It might be concluded that as we take care of ourselves and live to riper old age,
we increase our chances of getting cancer. At least with better sanitation and medical care,
we have the choice.

Black Shampoo wrote:I really wish there had been more serious responses to this. No offense to "older" members of the forum, but this matters to me because I'm not in the "twilight years," I've got decade after decade of sucking on this thing ahead of me. Lung cancer is a hell of a way to go when you've watched a family member do it.

For some reason our culture is determined to find terrible things and conspiracy theories everywhere. Have you read or heard that apples are dangerous because the skin holds more chemicals that any other food? I know it’s hard to find but if you look hard enough you can find that a rat needs to eat one bushel of apples per day for two month to get toxic. Of course he would die from apple acid before that, not from the insecticides. This reasoning is the same as the “linear no threshold theory” in nuclear physics. The fact is that someone’s bad breath is likely more dangerous to you in the same car driving across America. I know the sane people are hard to find on the internet. Start looking at published papers from univeristy research and you will find that there is no danger!

Wulfman... wrote:As a semi-related issue regarding "cancer", I've had a long-time suspicion that "radio waves" could be responsible for the increased incidences of cancer. There were stories about people who used the earlier cell phones and had cancers of the brain and areas near where the phones were positioned.
But, lots of good that would do to rant about that......to try to get wireless communications shut down. Ain't gonna happen, ain't gonna try. If it IS true, nobody would do anything about it......there's too much money driving the industries. Same thing with the "BPA" issue. It's not just CPAP machines that use it. Your potential exposure is everywhere, all the time.


Den

.

Just found this blog entry by an ENT:

http://fauquierent.blogspot.com/2011/02 ... rd-do.html

49er wrote:

Wulfman... wrote:As a semi-related issue regarding "cancer", I've had a long-time suspicion that "radio waves" could be responsible for the increased incidences of cancer. There were stories about people who used the earlier cell phones and had cancers of the brain and areas near where the phones were positioned.
But, lots of good that would do to rant about that......to try to get wireless communications shut down. Ain't gonna happen, ain't gonna try. If it IS true, nobody would do anything about it......there's too much money driving the industries. Same thing with the "BPA" issue. It's not just CPAP machines that use it. Your potential exposure is everywhere, all the time.


Den

.

Just found this blog entry by an ENT:

http://fauquierent.blogspot.com/2011/02 ... rd-do.html

Thanks for that link and article, 49er.
I actually wondered about the possible link long before the advent of cell phones......wondering about microwaves, radio signals and who knows what else is being beamed through the air. If AM or FM radio signals can reach a radio inside concrete buildings, they're certainly going through a person's body, too. And, do they have any effect on the human body? Granted, "cancer" has been around for......ever, it just seems like the incidences have increased over the decades of the last century. And, some people may be more susceptible than others. Who knows?

Anyway, thanks again.

Den

.

Studies are seldom what they appear. Often they are NOT from observed phenomena. Here’s an example how numbers can fool you:
You take 10,000 people and drop them on a concrete floor from 25 feet = all dead
You take 10,000 people and drop them on a concrete floor from 20 feet = all dead
You take 10,000 people and drop them on a concrete floor from 18 feet = 9,100 dead
You take 10,000 people and drop them on a concrete floor from 16 feet = 8,300 dead
You take 10,000 people and drop them on a concrete floor from 16 feet = 7,300 dead

Now you have a formula to work with. If your standard deviation is within acceptable parameters you can form the basis of a linear relationship; you now can apply the above results as follows:

You take 10,000 people and drop them on a concrete floor from 1 inch = 10 dead

This is how you can form the basis of the dangers of plastics, sugar substitutes, cell phones radio waves, radio waves from outer space, radon, large cucumbers, apple skins, radiation from cement….

Pesser wrote:Studies are seldom what they appear. Often they are NOT from observed phenomena. Here’s an example how numbers can fool you:
You take 10,000 people and drop them on a concrete floor from 25 feet = all dead
You take 10,000 people and drop them on a concrete floor from 20 feet = all dead
You take 10,000 people and drop them on a concrete floor from 18 feet = 9,100 dead
You take 10,000 people and drop them on a concrete floor from 16 feet = 8,300 dead
You take 10,000 people and drop them on a concrete floor from 16 feet = 7,300 dead

Now you have a formula to work with. If your standard deviation is within acceptable parameters you can form the basis of a linear relationship; you now can apply the above results as follows:

You take 10,000 people and drop them on a concrete floor from 1 inch = 10 dead

This is how you can form the basis of the dangers of plastics, sugar substitutes, cell phones radio waves, radio waves from outer space, radon, large cucumbers, apple skins, radiation from cement….

And, I'm still wondering about the nuclear testing they did in the '40s, '50s and '60s (upper atmospheric), the nuclear waste dumps around the world, etc. Everything adds up. That stuff makes the "BPA" issue look like nothing.

Then, there's groundwater pollution from pesticides, herbicides and fertilizers........ We could go on and on and on.


Den

.

Pesser wrote:Studies are seldom what they appear. Often they are NOT from observed phenomena. Here’s an example how numbers can fool you:
You take 10,000 people and drop them on a concrete floor from 25 feet = all dead

that probably depends on whether you're on the top or bottom of the pile!!

Wulfman... wrote: And, I'm still wondering about the nuclear testing they did in the '40s, '50s and '60s (upper atmospheric), the nuclear waste dumps around the world, etc. Everything adds up. That stuff makes the "BPA" issue look like nothing.

Then, there's groundwater pollution from pesticides, herbicides and fertilizers........ We could go on and on and on.


Den

.

In all the observed REAL studies that have been done there is no effect on anything for nuclear, except of course those people who have been exposed to 100rems or more. Japan is still at normal back ground radiation levels. The pesticides and herbicides are very near where I lived. The animals don’t seem to mind at all. At least after a few rains falls. Trace amounts found in ground water are too small to affect anything. Observations are that they really don’t know where the stuff goes. Both you and I are inhaling chemicals right now from the paint in our homes, and you are now being exposed to about 1.2 Pci/l of radiation from your computer screen. Enjoy!!!! There are studies, many, many, many of them that show that low dose radiation is good for you. Check Bernard Cohen! He has a website.

palerider wrote:

Pesser wrote:Studies are seldom what they appear. Often they are NOT from observed phenomena. Here’s an example how numbers can fool you:
You take 10,000 people and drop them on a concrete floor from 25 feet = all dead

that probably depends on whether you're on the top or bottom of the pile!!

You seem to think vertically. Maybe because of where you are from?

I think I have a solution to dieing from the things around you. Abort yourself, then these worries will be moot! Jim

Wulfman... wrote:
And, I'm still wondering about the nuclear testing they did in the '40s, '50s and '60s (upper atmospheric), the nuclear waste dumps around the world, etc. Everything adds up. That stuff makes the "BPA" issue look like nothing.

Then, there's groundwater pollution from pesticides, herbicides and fertilizers........ We could go on and on and on.


Den

.

Every so often, I see a commercial showing the area south of Seattle, and it warns us that there is arsenic in the soil. We should be washing our shoes when we come in from working/playing in the yard, washing our hands after, etc. We have dogs who go in and out multiple times a day. Nobody has EVER washed the dog's feet, or our shoes, etc. We have lived here for 27 years, and didn't even know about this until a couple years ago. I supposed we could get worried about it, but we've lived here this long, and there don't seem to be an unusually high numbers of illness in the area. Sometimes, we just have to accept a few risks and worry about the bigger things, like getting in a car accident on the freeway,

Wulfman... wrote:

49er wrote:

Wulfman... wrote:As a semi-related issue regarding "cancer", I've had a long-time suspicion that "radio waves" could be responsible for the increased incidences of cancer. There were stories about people who used the earlier cell phones and had cancers of the brain and areas near where the phones were positioned.
But, lots of good that would do to rant about that......to try to get wireless communications shut down. Ain't gonna happen, ain't gonna try. If it IS true, nobody would do anything about it......there's too much money driving the industries. Same thing with the "BPA" issue. It's not just CPAP machines that use it. Your potential exposure is everywhere, all the time.


Den

.

Just found this blog entry by an ENT:

http://fauquierent.blogspot.com/2011/02 ... rd-do.html

Thanks for that link and article, 49er.
I actually wondered about the possible link long before the advent of cell phones......wondering about microwaves, radio signals and who knows what else is being beamed through the air. If AM or FM radio signals can reach a radio inside concrete buildings, they're certainly going through a person's body, too. And, do they have any effect on the human body? Granted, "cancer" has been around for......ever, it just seems like the incidences have increased over the decades of the last century. And, some people may be more susceptible than others. Who knows?

Anyway, thanks again.

Den

.

You are very welcome Den. I have to admit it made me reconsider my possible plan to convert to a cell phone only system instead of using both a landline and a cell phone. But Zoo Crew's last post is so applicable in this case about accepting risks. And it isn't like I am on the phone all the time anyway.

49er wrote: Just found this blog entry by an ENT:

http://fauquierent.blogspot.com/2011/02 ... rd-do.html

One private practice ENT is hardly a credible source of information on the effects of cell phone radiation. Remember that many ENT's who think that UPPP is a good idea, and often don't see any need for CPAP'ers to have fully data capable machines.

Practicing physicians in general have a really bad grasp of science, especially mathematics and probability. They are fairly good at assembly line medicine. Luckily, most of us only need assembly line medicine most of the time.

The true experts who do actual research almost never find a link with health problems from cell phone exposure. Even when they do find some a difference in cancer rates, the difference is small, and usually of questionable statistical significance, especially when you ignore the 100 studies that show no effect and cherry pick the one study in 100 that shows some very minor effect.

Yes, you can worry about some highly improbable risk of cell phone cancer, or plastic fumes. You can worry about lots of things.

There are lots of car accidents, you should stop driving, or at least not use the car unless absolutely necessary.
Flu kills 20,000 people a year in the US, better get vaccinated. No wait, there are a few people who react to vaccines, better not.
Mosquitoes kill 1 million people a year worldwide. Better put on the insect repellant. No wait, there's this article saying there might be some risk.
Shaking hands can spread deadly germs. I'd better not shake hands any more.
Electricity causes a lot of fires, better not use it.
Lots of people fall in the shower. Better shower only when absolutely necessary.
Germs get spread by people in restaurants. Better not eat out.
A few people have severe reactions to peanuts, shellfish, and tree nuts. Better not eat them.
Sunlight causes cancer. Better use sunscreen. No wait, there's a study that questions the safety of sunscreens.
There may be radon in my house, better open the windows and turn on a fan. No wait, there are allergens and germs out there.
Gas furnaces can create CO, better not use that.
People die from paper cuts. Better quit reading.
Your air conditioner can grow deadly germs and molds in the ducting, better stop using that.
Cooking food creates carcinogens, stop cooking food.
Raw vegetables can contain salmonella and other germs, stop eating them.
Mad cow disease, no beef or lamb.
Sometimes there are deadly germs in drinking water. Better start boiling all my water before I drink it.
Compact fluorescent bulbs have mercury, better not use them.
Your computer and mouse have lead in them. Better get rid of that.
Paint produces volatile organic compounds. Better not paint the house or live in a painted house.
Kissing can spread germs. Better not kiss anymore. No sex, either.
Pregnancy can be dangerous. Better not have kids.
Kids (and other family members) can bring home germs. Better live alone.

Spend that effort you're using to worry about improbable threats like cellphones and plastic fumes and work on real things you can change like maintaining a healthy weight, eating right, driving carefully, exercising, home safety, proper healthcare, CPAP usage, etc.

Like I always say, the the older you become, the closer you get to your dirt nap.
Get old if you can, and make a difference in any case.
If you obsess about your own mortality, that is all you will be remembered for.

Archangle,

I didn't say he was as he was simply reposting some research that looked credible although I didn't study it thoroughly.

And by the way, not all ENTs are horrific monsters who want to cut open everyone. And they aren't the only doctors who think CPAPers shouldn't get data capable machines.

And speaking of so called experts, they denied for years that psych meds have any withdrawal symptoms and if you did, you should be over it in two weeks. Now, there is researching finding out that isn't true. So I don't necessarily take the word of someone just because they are a so called expert.

Finally, I hadn't even thought about the cell phone issue for quite awhile until Den posted his initial post on the radiation issue and then I wondered momentarily if I was making a mistake by only using my cellphone and not just the landline. But it didn't last long.

49er

archangle wrote:

49er wrote: Just found this blog entry by an ENT:

http://fauquierent.blogspot.com/2011/02 ... rd-do.html

One private practice ENT is hardly a credible source of information on the effects of cell phone radiation. Remember that many ENT's who think that UPPP is a good idea, and often don't see any need for CPAP'ers to have fully data capable machines.

Practicing physicians in general have a really bad grasp of science, especially mathematics and probability. They are fairly good at assembly line medicine. Luckily, most of us only need assembly line medicine most of the time.

The true experts who do actual research almost never find a link with health problems from cell phone exposure. Even when they do find some a difference in cancer rates, the difference is small, and usually of questionable statistical significance, especially when you ignore the 100 studies that show no effect and cherry pick the one study in 100 that shows some very minor effect.

Yes, you can worry about some highly improbable risk of cell phone cancer, or plastic fumes. You can worry about lots of things.

There are lots of car accidents, you should stop driving, or at least not use the car unless absolutely necessary.
Flu kills 20,000 people a year in the US, better get vaccinated. No wait, there are a few people who react to vaccines, better not.
Mosquitoes kill 1 million people a year worldwide. Better put on the insect repellant. No wait, there's this article saying there might be some risk.
Shaking hands can spread deadly germs. I'd better not shake hands any more.
Electricity causes a lot of fires, better not use it.
Lots of people fall in the shower. Better shower only when absolutely necessary.
Germs get spread by people in restaurants. Better not eat out.
A few people have severe reactions to peanuts, shellfish, and tree nuts. Better not eat them.
Sunlight causes cancer. Better use sunscreen. No wait, there's a study that questions the safety of sunscreens.
There may be radon in my house, better open the windows and turn on a fan. No wait, there are allergens and germs out there.
Gas furnaces can create CO, better not use that.
People die from paper cuts. Better quit reading.
Your air conditioner can grow deadly germs and molds in the ducting, better stop using that.
Cooking food creates carcinogens, stop cooking food.
Raw vegetables can contain salmonella and other germs, stop eating them.
Mad cow disease, no beef or lamb.
Sometimes there are deadly germs in drinking water. Better start boiling all my water before I drink it.
Compact fluorescent bulbs have mercury, better not use them.
Your computer and mouse have lead in them. Better get rid of that.
Paint produces volatile organic compounds. Better not paint the house or live in a painted house.
Kissing can spread germs. Better not kiss anymore. No sex, either.
Pregnancy can be dangerous. Better not have kids.
Kids (and other family members) can bring home germs. Better live alone.

Spend that effort you're using to worry about improbable threats like cellphones and plastic fumes and work on real things you can change like maintaining a healthy weight, eating right, driving carefully, exercising, home safety, proper healthcare, CPAP usage, etc.