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Re: Misdiagnosis: ADHD may really be a Sleep Disorder!
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:41 am
by Jahbulon
SleepingUgly wrote:Jahbulon, you seem to be disagreeing with me on a couple of points (which is fine), mainly through unconventional use of terms.
Yes, that's right: we agreed about Dopamine & limb movements though, and it's nice when someone does not take disagreement as a personal attack, especially on the Internet, which seems to bring out the best and the worst in human beings.
SleepingUgly wrote:"Hyperactivity" does not = inattention, irritability, focusing on the TV, etc. That's just not what "hyperactivity" means either in lay use of the term or in diagnosis of ADHD.
Without checking, you must be correct on hyperactivity and ADD/ADHD, but if we do look at the official symptoms behind these labels, then that is where they point. Someone told me they thought ADHD was caused by the brain going to sleep, which is far too close to Cataplexy in Narcolepsy.
SleepingUgly wrote:"Periodic limb movements" also has a specific definition (don't ask me what),
Yes it is: PLMS - Periodic Limb Movements
in Sleep.
Re: Misdiagnosis: ADHD may really be a Sleep Disorder!
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:47 am
by SleepingUgly
Let's just agree to disagree.
Re: Misdiagnosis: ADHD may really be a Sleep Disorder!
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:03 am
by sleepstar
Todzo wrote:sleepstar wrote:Interesting
I have ADHD but no sleep disorder that I'm aware of :p
When was your last full Polysomnogram with esophageal pressure sensor?
not long ago :p
Re: Misdiagnosis: ADHD may really be a Sleep Disorder!
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:11 am
by Jahbulon
SleepingUgly wrote:Let's just agree to disagree.
Dissapointed because the uses and abuses of Dopamine need attention, imo. Seems to me sleep generates Dopamine.
Re: Misdiagnosis: ADHD may really be a Sleep Disorder!
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 8:41 am
by Drowsy Dancer
Jahbulon wrote:SleepingUgly wrote:Jahbulon wrote:One symptom of sleep deprivation is hyperactivity (the symptoms of ADD/ADHD). [ . . . ].
In children, yes.
All of us: irritability, inability to pay attention, focusing on the things we like, such as television or playing with the computer, to the exclusion of tasks we need to complete, such as cleaning or school homework ("hyperactivity").
If that is not so, why else do we sleep?
The traditional difference between US and UK medical conclusions is that the US medical establishment claims hyperactivity (the symptoms of ADD/ADHD) can exist alone, with no
other cause; while the British claim hyperactivity always has some other cause, such as Narcolepsy; and therefore, ADD/ADHD does not exist
as an independent free standing diagnosis.
This has been transliterated into false claims that hyperactivity does not exist or does not exist in adults. Have a look at the behavior of young men after taking too much of the sedative known as alcohol and then claim hyperactivity does not exist.
Hang on! DSM-IV-TR list diagnostic criteria for AD/HD that include those for a primarily inattentive type. Symptoms of hyperactivity need not be present.
http://www.venturafamilymed.org/Documen ... 20ADHD.pdf
Re: Misdiagnosis: ADHD may really be a Sleep Disorder!
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 8:52 am
by 49er
Drowsy Dancer wrote:Jahbulon wrote:SleepingUgly wrote:Jahbulon wrote:One symptom of sleep deprivation is hyperactivity (the symptoms of ADD/ADHD). [ . . . ].
In children, yes.
All of us: irritability, inability to pay attention, focusing on the things we like, such as television or playing with the computer, to the exclusion of tasks we need to complete, such as cleaning or school homework ("hyperactivity").
If that is not so, why else do we sleep?
The traditional difference between US and UK medical conclusions is that the US medical establishment claims hyperactivity (the symptoms of ADD/ADHD) can exist alone, with no
other cause; while the British claim hyperactivity always has some other cause, such as Narcolepsy; and therefore, ADD/ADHD does not exist
as an independent free standing diagnosis.
This has been transliterated into false claims that hyperactivity does not exist or does not exist in adults. Have a look at the behavior of young men after taking too much of the sedative known as alcohol and then claim hyperactivity does not exist.
Hang on! DSM-IV-TR list diagnostic criteria for AD/HD that include those for a primarily inattentive type. Symptoms of hyperactivity need not be present.
http://www.venturafamilymed.org/Documen ... 20ADHD.pdf
The problem with the diagnostic criteria for inattentive ADHD is the symptoms listed could be due to so many other issues. Unfortunately, in this era of rushed medicine, even alot of psychiatrists aren't going to take the time to tease things out. I mean, let's just throw ritalin at the problem since it is harmless
49er
Re: Misdiagnosis: ADHD may really be a Sleep Disorder!
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 9:03 am
by Drowsy Dancer
49er wrote:The problem with the diagnostic criteria for inattentive ADHD is the symptoms listed could be due to so many other issues. Unfortunately, in this era of rushed medicine, even alot of psychiatrists aren't going to take the time to tease things out. I mean, let's just throw ritalin at the problem since it is harmless
Agreed. A good workup for a suspected case of ADHD involves taking a careful history, talking to collateral sources, reviewing medical and academic records, etc. Hence my upthread whining about saying it's "only" an in-office interview.
Re: Misdiagnosis: ADHD may really be a Sleep Disorder!
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 9:05 am
by Jahbulon
WHO seems to think these ADD/ADHD/Hyperactivity disorders are closely related.
http://apps.who.int/classifications/icd ... /en#/F90.0
Hyperactivity is difficult to define: used to be called the brain damage disorder. Seems to be roughly how children behave when tired and over tired, also young men after over use of the sedative called Alcohol.
Re: Misdiagnosis: ADHD may really be a Sleep Disorder!
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 9:16 am
by SleepingUgly
49er wrote:The problem with the diagnostic criteria for inattentive ADHD is the symptoms listed could be due to so many other issues. Unfortunately, in this era of rushed medicine, even alot of psychiatrists aren't going to take the time to tease things out. I mean, let's just throw ritalin at the problem since it is harmless
My first stop for an evaluation of ADHD would never be a psychiatrist. I'd go to a competent psychologist, who would do testing to differentially diagnose ADHD vs other disorders (LD, etc.), using instruments that parents and teachers fill out, as well as testing in the office, clinical interview, etc. If ADHD is found, the competent psychologist would refer out to other specialties to rule out potential causes of the symptoms (e.g., sleep medicine, neurology, etc.). If no other cause is found for it, and if medication is warranted, THEN the a physician or psychiatrist would become involved. That's the idea, IMO. Unfortunately, too often parents leave the diagnosis in the hands of the child's pediatrician, who is not competent to do what I just described.
Re: Misdiagnosis: ADHD may really be a Sleep Disorder!
Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 9:23 am
by chunkyfrog
Unless you have "Cadillac" insurance, the onesizefitsall route is the best you usually get--unless you put up a fight.