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johnthomasmacdonald wrote:and if you didn't have insurance, you'd be liable for the whole amount - it's a disgrace

$4000 for an hour in the recovery room - all these charges are a joke - they might as well charge $4 million since the amounts bear no relation to the actual costs

It's actually worse than that...insurance companies can bargain with the healthcare industry and tell them what they'll pay. The individual can't, so bills to people without insurance are expected to pay much more than what insurance pays. I've seen what my DME bills the insurance company, and what they actually pay. Big difference. Same with charges from medical service providers, the insurance companies pay way less than what they're billed. I've heard people without insurance quoting the fabulous amounts that they're billed for simple procedures or supplies, as opposed to what an insurance company would actually pay, it is very troubling.

RogerSC wrote:

johnthomasmacdonald wrote:and if you didn't have insurance, you'd be liable for the whole amount - it's a disgrace

$4000 for an hour in the recovery room - all these charges are a joke - they might as well charge $4 million since the amounts bear no relation to the actual costs

It's actually worse than that...insurance companies can bargain with the healthcare industry and tell them what they'll pay. The individual can't, so bills to people without insurance are expected to pay much more than what insurance pays. I've seen what my DME bills the insurance company, and what they actually pay. Big difference. Same with charges from medical service providers, the insurance companies pay way less than what they're billed. I've heard people without insurance quoting the fabulous amounts that they're billed for simple procedures or supplies, as opposed to what an insurance company would actually pay, it is very troubling.

Fortunately, my current and former sleep doctors were willing to charge me lower rates since I don't have health insurance.

But I shudder to think what would happen if god forbid I ended up in the hospital and was billed for extortionist charges.

Anyway, so much for the theory that people without insurance can get free care in the ER.

Slarty, good point about people who are hypochondriacs and have insurance always going to the doctor. But the other side of the coin is that the folks who don't have insurance will hold off going to a doctor and a treatable medical condition will become alot worse.

49er

You were asking what drugs costs that much?

Well coke.
The medical buying club (aka medical insurance companies) CEOs need that. And they go through lots of it.

$1,591 Pharmacy (what drugs cost that much?)

No drug costs that much. That was just what was on the invoice. No one paid it and no one expected it would be paid.

Someone mentioned cocaine. One gram would have kept you high throughout the surgery and recovery. $75 from a reliable source. Not bad at all.

When healthcare providers like hospitals write off the difference between what they billed and what they collect, it allows them to show a loss and, I guess, is one component in achieving and maintaining non-profit tax exempt status, at least on paper.

TheUglyTruth wrote:

$1,591 Pharmacy (what drugs cost that much?)

No drug costs that much. That was just what was on the invoice. No one paid it and no one expected it would be paid.

Someone mentioned cocaine. One gram would have kept you high throughout the surgery and recovery. $75 from a reliable source. Not bad at all.

You expect insurance company CEOs to buy it at that price? They have markup to bill to someone.

I do know someone who has been giving rats coke and I don't think they get it anywhere near that cheap but lab rats in addiction studies only get the best stuff.

The difference between what they charge and what they receive for the procedure could be a bookkeeping maneuver. They can count that difference as a loss.

When my son had cancer we got bills that included "facility fees" of about $2000.00 per visit. Basically you just walk in the door and you get charged a facility fee.

Is there any other service industry that does not inform customers of the cost of service prior to delivery of service?

The way it was explained to me is the hospital makes an outrageous bill because for some reports they are measured by their GROSS "income". That $30,000 added to their gross. You notice Medicare dis-allowed the vast majority of the bill because they knew it was inflated. When your payment is added to the Medicare payment, the hospital will mark it Paid In Full. It's a game.

If you owned a business like a hopital and were forced to give away your products to those who needed them but couldn't afford them and to sell or provide services to others at below cost...where would you make up that money to stay in business? Keep in mind you can't always cut staffing or their salaries or skimp on office equipment. There's also a like if Attorneys waiting in line to sue you for so many issues you can't tell the legitimate ones from the scams. In a nutshell that's why health care costs are so high.

I'm sure the Government will fix it for us.

eeckel wrote:The difference between what they charge and what they receive for the procedure could be a bookkeeping maneuver. They can count that difference as a loss.

RandyJ wrote:When healthcare providers like hospitals write off the difference between what they billed and what they collect, it allows them to show a loss and, I guess, is one component in achieving and maintaining non-profit tax exempt status, at least on paper.

You are correct - you are guessing.

Both of you are guessing and both of you are wrong. You have no idea about the fundamentals of accounting or about what makes profit and loss.

-tim wrote:
You expect insurance company CEOs to buy it at that price? They have markup to bill to someone.

I do know someone who has been giving rats coke and I don't think they get it anywhere near that cheap but lab rats in addiction studies only get the best stuff.

Yes. They do buy it at that price for their own personal consumption. There is very good, high quality on the street - a genuine market.

What you are talking about is a highly regulated market that drives the prices up for those poor lab rats.

TheUglyTruth wrote: You have no idea about the fundamentals of accounting or about what makes profit and loss.

Actually, you are wrong... at least about me. I work as a comptroller, so I do know a few things about accounting. I do not have experience in the non profit sector, but since DMEs write off the portion of the claim that they do not collect (the difference between billed amount and contract amount), I surmised that hospitals might do something similar.

Since you seem to be a medical billing specialist, why don't you tell us exactly what hospitals do with their accounting rather than simply saying that someone is wrong, which is not helpful in the least to the discourse?

TIM wrote: "You were asking what drugs costs that much?

Well coke.
The medical buying club (aka medical insurance companies) CEOs need that. And they go through lots of it. "

I worked for Merck sharp and Dohme research labs decades ago and one of my co-workers had worked in the production facility that made Pharmaceutical grade cocaine - he had some hilarious stories about it

eeckel wrote:Is there any other service industry that does not inform customers of the cost of service prior to delivery of service?

Yea, ANIMAL doctors (VETS). I take my dog in for annual shots and leave with a bill for $350. They don't ask if want something done. They just do it.

There are a shocking number of average old folks (myself included) who are simply trying to leave a little monetary legacy to their grown kids and grandkids. Ha, ha, the joke's on us. Guess what--- the medical establishment including most doctors, surgeons, drug suppliers, hospitals, healthcare administrators, unions bosses and everybody else in this massive racket are sucking our hard earned assets and property out from under us with a giant Hoover. I call them the medical robber barons. My sister's family has been all but destroyed by them. Also, in my desirable area on the West Coast, most of these people own hilltop mansions (literally) with ocean views, Ferrari sports cars and 20-something bimbo wives. (or bimbo boys for the female robber baronesses). It's sad and I don't know how much longer our nation can endure this racket. I've travelled alot and you don't see this much in any other countries.