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Again, I don't think the numbers don't look too bad, except for REM.
I am convinced that leaks, even relatively minor, disrupt my deep sleep, although I have not yet been able to statiscally "prove" it. If my leaks occur within the first couple of hours, Deep is generally decreased. If leaks occur later in the night, it might result in more awakenings and more periods of REM, but Deep tends to be preserved. Overall, no matter when the leaks occur, my amount of REM stays relatively constant. The only thing that has seemed to suppress my REM has been drugs.
BTW, I would consider leaks in the 21-26 category high.* My last 6 month leak averages are: Median=0.00, 95%=10.8, Max=22.8 with AI=0.6 and AHI 2.7. These are all pretty good numbers, I think, but I still suffer from fatigue more often than not.
I have no idea, of course, why you are not getting restful sleep. I don't know why I don't. I just share your desire to obtain it.
J

edit: *Oops, apples to oranges, huh? PR to ResMed.

Yep, total leak to "I guess that's what I'll expect from your mask type". This past night's leak values were min: 20, max: 27, avg: 22, 95%: 22. And the AHI was 0.84, with the brief spike in leak in the latter half of the night. My REM percentages are normally on the low side, but at least doesn't take me a few hours before it starts (in my first sleep study, I had no REM until 5am or so, then it was all REM, which was enough to make it a "normal" percentage).

As for 2013-01-11:

ZQ: 82
Total sleep: 7:51
Sleep latency: 0:15
Times woken: 9
Wake: 0:14 (3%)
REM: 0:55 (11%)
Light: 5:36 (69%)
Deep: 1:21 (17%)

Since the PR S1 machines report total leak (vent rate plus excess leak) their leak numbers can't be compared to a ResMed machine user's leak numbers because ResMed machines report only excess leak.

A leak of 21 to 26 or even 36 using a PR S1 machine is really quite decent.
Vent rate for the Swift FX mask at a pressure of 10 is 33 L/min (plus or minus 5 or whatever).
So a PR S1 machine leak report number of less or at the vent rate points to pretty much minimal to none leak.

So your leak numbers aren't anywhere near high for your mask and your machine at your pressure.
Comparing ResMed leak numbers to Respironics leak numbers is an apples and oranges comparison. If we want to make an apples to apples comparison we have to manually remove the vent rate from the total leak number so that we see excess only leak number.

Just as well I wasn't prescribed Ambien, was strongly warned against driving by the pharmacist, and live in an area where public transit is cheaper and easier than car ownership. Still, it will be interesting to see how well I can stay upright when I go skating later today; my knee has even stopped leaking after I had tripped while walking down the sidewalk.

I just love how poorly some of the calculated ZQ numbers correlate to how I actually feel. A night with a ZQ of 80 gets followed by turning off the alarm clocks and tidying up the machine, tasting something bitter, then promptly falling asleep for another couple hours. That is so much better than the mornings I wake up with a number in the mid-sixties and can stay awake.

2013-01-12:

ZQ: 80
Total sleep: 7:28
Sleep latency: 0:12
Times woken: 3
Wake: 0:03 (1%)
REM: 1:05 (14%)
Light: 5:17 (70%)
Deep: 1:06 (15%)

As an update to this, I saw both my family doctor and my psychiatrist today. They both stated that while the sleep doctor prescribed me the lowest available dose, it is far too high for me. I have been told that I should never take the amount I was initially prescribed again, and that I am to cut them in half (or get a pharmacist to do it for me). I was also told that if it hadn't been a sleep doctor who wrote the initial prescription, I would be told to stop taking them now.

My top zeo score by far was the one night i took xanax by mistake. I asked my sister for an anti-histamine and she gave me one of her xanax - she's had the prescription filled months ago but never takes them - i slept unbelievably great and my zeo score was 115

The Xanax works for me if I'm not able to fall asleep because of something that worries me.
Re my son's suggestion, I only take a half pill and am actually able to wake up when I need to.
What's the shelf life on the generic?

johnthomasmacdonald wrote:My top zeo score by far was the one night i took xanax by mistake. I asked my sister for an anti-histamine and she gave me one of her xanax - she's had the prescription filled months ago but never takes them - i slept unbelievably great and my zeo score was 115

Yeah, when I take a big dose of sleeping pill on the weekend and sleep for 12 hours, my ZQ is great and I feel groggy (well, I feel groggy every day, so that's no different). I think ZQ focuses too much on quantity vs. quality, which Dr. Krakow would say is a mistake, and that's my experience too. My few good nights on CPAP with 50%+ (Deep + REM) from Zeo and AHI < 1.5 leave me feeling way better than 12 hours of zonked sleeping pill sleep. I think Zeo data is comparable for nights of about the same length.

After the reduction, my Zeo's numbers still resemble what they were at the higher dose. But the daytime is much simpler; it actually feels like I can get out of bed. And I'm not constantly yawning or feeling the sort of warm, fuzzy feeling I get if I were to be woken up at 2am.

As for tonight, I'm going to see what happens when I return to none.

patrissimo wrote: I think ZQ focuses too much on quantity vs. quality, which Dr. Krakow would say is a mistake, and that's my experience too.

I agree as well and we've talked a little bit about it before. Here's a previous post which points to one of DeltaDave's posts on the subject of high Zeo scores.

Jay Aitchsee wrote: If you haven't seen it, you may want to check out this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=84753&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... e&start=30
DD makes the point that higher ZQ scores are not necessarily better. For example, a 12 hour sleep devoid of REM and Deep would score 102. Good score, but poor sleep.
Just a thought.

Jay

Well, that was fun. I feel exhausted. At least I don't remember waking up as many times as the Zeo thinks I did.

2013-01-18:

ZQ: 65
Total sleep: 6:30
Sleep latency: 0:09
Times woken: 16
Wake: 0:34 (8%)
REM: 0:42 (10%)
Light: 4:22 (62%)
Deep: 1:27 (20%)

And now for a second night without it. Contributing to the long wake time of this night was a bad dream at the beginning of the night that took some time to calm down from. In that time, I was doing something other than trying to sleep; I did some latch hook while silently cursing out the neighbours who were having a loud party at 1am. I do remember it taking longer than usual to get to sleep.

2013-01-19

ZQ: 56
Total sleep 5:27
Sleep latency: 0:36
Times woken: 9
Wake: 0:52 (14%)
REM: 1:04 (17%)
Light: 3:17 (52%)
Deep: 1:07 (18%)

And after a third night of none, I woke up feeling my usual, pre-zopiclone tiredness. I think I felt better on waking with 2.5mg. Anyway, the night felt like it came from December, with the exception of clueing into the fact that I was dreaming while I was dreaming. And when that happened, an alarm went off, the elevator I was in fell, and I woke up. I wasn't hooked up to the computer, but according to the low-res display, the Zeo didn't think I was dreaming then. But what can you expect from something without all the wires.

2013-01-20:

ZQ: 77
Total sleep: 7:37
Sleep latency: 0:05
Times woken: 11
Wake: 0:28 (6%)
REM: 0:40 (8%)
Light: 5:31 (68%)
Deep: 1:26 (18%)

I recently went in for the followup that the sleep doctor wanted after two months. It was decided that I was still having too many issues during the day even with the reduction to half the tablet. While stimulants could have been tried in addition, that option was considered too messy. I'm back to taking nothing, and the first night went well.

And so all my remaining zopiclone went back to the pharmacy for them to dispose of.