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In 1970's the US had a longer life expectancy than third world countries because we kept our babies and children alive. Some by having health care available, others by such things as clean drinking water. In the 1800's a lot of women died in child birth, and from simple overwork coupled with sometimes not very good nutrition. Go to a graveyard and see the group of women who were the serial wives of one man. As he took a new wife after losing a wife.

One of the great fallacies of life expectancy is to think that in say, during 1890 (I have not looked it up the exact number) that a person was lucky to live to be 40. The real truth is that there were a lot of individuals who were older, and a lot of graves of children which skewed the statistics.

We have a lot of improvement, if not in morbidity statistics, because of paramedics and emergency room services who save lives of individuals who would have died, going back to when some in my 1960's high school days, who died in auto accidents.

If one wants to not just live long, but to have quality of life, enjoyment of life, then one should do what a doctor says, which includes good diet, some exercise. Yes, including some discernment in choosing the right doc.

then one should do what a doctor says, which includes good diet, some exercise.

Yes and I find it specious to argue that U.S. life expectancy is lacking due to failure to have universal health (mis)care.

Life expectancy is affected greatly by high rates of drug and alcohol use, breakdown of traditional families, sedentary lifestyle and horrible diets. Universal health (mis)care will not fix any of this.

Eddie Fasolino wrote:

then one should do what a doctor says, which includes good diet, some exercise.

Yes and I find it specious to argue that U.S. life expectancy is lacking due to failure to have universal health (mis)care.

Life expectancy is affected greatly by high rates of drug and alcohol use, breakdown of traditional families, sedentary lifestyle and horrible diets. Universal health (mis)care will not fix any of this.

Oh really?

Two people I know who stayed alive for several years after their cancer diagnosis would have been dead without health insurance.

A relative would have been blind without it.

Another relative wouldn't have lived until 93 without it. Oh and by the way, she was separated.

And I am sure this woman who lost her mom will be happy to know it had nothing to do with having health insurance

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2012/02/mot ... -died.html

Basically, the attitude of conservatives is you lose your health insurance and can't afford to buy private insurance on the open market, tough luck. If you die or suffer, so be it.

This has nothing to do with Obamacare which John rightfully points out was based on Romney's plan and conservative ideology. No matter what plan he came up with, the conservatives would have cried socialism and how their rights are being threatened.

And before you flame me, which I expect you will do, think about your own situation regarding sleep apnea. How well would you be functioning if you didn't have access to a machine and necessary treatment?

Flame away.

49er

Eddie Fasolino wrote:

then one should do what a doctor says, which includes good diet, some exercise.

Yes and I find it specious to argue that U.S. life expectancy is lacking due to failure to have universal health (mis)care.

Life expectancy is affected greatly by high rates of drug and alcohol use, breakdown of traditional families, sedentary lifestyle and horrible diets. Universal health (mis)care will not fix any of this.

I hate to say it, but I DO agree with you, Eddie, on one point (and one point alone). Life expectancy IS affected greatly when people mistreat their bodies.

However ... I fail to see why you are so against universal health care that you would call it universal health (mis)care. I'm Canadian. I and all my fellow Canadians enjoy our wonderful healthcare system. As a matter of fact, people come from all over the world to live here in my country because they want universal health care and a better way of life. I NEVER have to worry about how to pay for my next doctor's visit, or my next surgery. I may have to wait a little bit longer than you to actually get into that surgery, but I can confidently go in knowing that I will not lose my house because I needed surgery ... and I'll never have to worry about finding a job that offers health benefits because I can't afford private health insurance.

And no ... contrary to what someone else said on another page, we Canadians are not preserved by the cold, resulting in better health. We DO have all the seasons, you know. Very hot summers, and spring and fall, just like you guys. I know, well I'm hoping, it was just a joke!

Two people I know who stayed alive for several years after their cancer diagnosis would have been dead without health insurance.

A relative would have been blind without it.

Three examples of people who got the medical care they needed without national universal health (mis)care.

Thanks for providing examples to support my point.

And I am sure this woman who lost her mom will be happy to know it had nothing to do with having health insurance

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2012/02/mot ... -died.html

Did you actually read the blog? The lady claims her mother died because she did not have the "high copays" to pay for inhalers for her asthma.

The story the lady tells is suspicious. The copays could not be high. Without insurance, a 200-dose of Albuterol inhaler is $45 at Walmart and a 60-dose inhaler is $20. Her copay was likely lower.

With such cheap treatment why did the lady not help her mother? Did she let her die rather than pull a few dollars from her own budget? She is all for medical care if someone else has to pay for it. But that stops if she has to pay for it.

BTW, these inhalers were $10. Then the federal government changed the requirement to HFA inhalers which are much more expensive and less effective!

So maybe the government, instead of being the potential saver of the dead mother, contributed to her death!

49er, You certainly deserve a flaming. But I will leave that to others.

ReadyforRest

I have heard all the complaints about Canadian healthcare. Most Canadians mute their complaints because they have a nationalistic spirit and are very jealous of the great nation to their immediate south.

But I will give you plenty of credit. You have a less violent population, less of a drug problem, less of a sedentary problem and rank higher on many other social factors.

You also have a better immigration policy.

Your government is also acting far more to the right that the U.S. does. A big example is the government-created housing bubble in the U.S. You Canadians had enough good sense and enough sense of right and wrong to avoid that.

I give you high marks for your government fiscal policy and personal fiscal responsibility. You also have not regulated business and citizens to the great extent that our government has.

You have also largely (not entirely) avoided having elected officials who practice the most egregious form of crony capitalism as it is practiced in the U.S.

You get high marks for supporting freedom!

Be thankful for what you have and get over the debates within the U.S. - they have nothing to do with you unless you want to come here to get medical care.

You can't have everything all at once. Give thanks for what you have today and maybe someday you will be fortunate enough to have a market-based medical care. I hope someday we have one also.

Eddie Fasolino wrote:

ReadyforRest

I have heard all the complaints about Canadian healthcare. Most Canadians mute their complaints because they have a nationalistic spirit and are very jealous of the great nation to their immediate south.

But I will give you plenty of credit. You have a less violent population, less of a drug problem, less of a sedentary problem and rank higher on many other social factors.

You also have a better immigration policy.

Your government is also acting far more to the right that the U.S. does. A big example is the government-created housing bubble in the U.S. You Canadians had enough good sense and enough sense of right and wrong to avoid that.

I give you high marks for your government fiscal policy and personal fiscal responsibility. You also have not regulated business and citizens to the great extent that our government has.

You have also largely (not entirely) avoided having elected officials who practice the most egregious form of crony capitalism as it is practiced in the U.S.

You get high marks for supporting freedom!

Be thankful for what you have and get over the debates within the U.S. - they have nothing to do with you unless you want to come here to get medical care.

You can't have everything all at once. Give thanks for what you have today and maybe someday you will be fortunate enough to have a market-based medical care. I hope someday we have one also.

Oh? So if we get such high marks for doing so many things right, then why ... for heaven's sake ... would we be "very jealous of the great nation to" our "immediate south."? As you said, we sound pretty great ourselves.

And you didn't answer my question about "universal health (mis)care".

ReadyforRest wrote:And no ... contrary to what someone else said on another page, we Canadians are not preserved by the cold, resulting in better health. We DO have all the seasons, you know. Very hot summers, and spring and fall, just like you guys. I know, well I'm hoping, it was just a joke!

Of course I was joking. Everyone knows that it's the steady diet of poutine, Tim Horton's coffee, and whale blubber that keeps Canadians going strong.

This thread was about women's longevity: do we still live longer than the men?

chunkyfrog wrote:This thread was about women's longevity: do we still live longer than the men?

You know we couldn't get along without you so you do us the favor of not leaving first.

Yes they do. It's their final revenge.

I wonder how many people in the U.S. who are against some type of "universal" care are against it because of the very concept of it, or if they're against it because of the current form that it's taking.

IMO, all the comparisons to healthcare in Canada, England, or whatevercountryyoucaretoname are invalid from the start. The populations are different, the governments are different (thank God), some of the underlying premises are different. I'm thrilled that a Canadian is happy with what they have. That doesn't necessarily mean the same plan would work here.

KSMike wrote: The populations are different, the governments are different (thank God), some of the underlying premises are different. I'm thrilled that a Canadian is happy with what they have. That doesn't necessarily mean the same plan would work here."

Funny how Americans never seem to consider this when they go off to militarily impose their ideas of what makes a good government on other countries that we know little about

Having lived in England, Germany, Spain and Canada and been married to a Spaniard and a German ( my first wife died of cancer at 37) I don't see this huge differences in people that you do. I certainly feel way way more comfortable and at home and feel that I have much more in common with most Londoners or Berliners ( I was born and raised in NYC) than I do with almost any and all rural americans from say Mississippi.