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Burkebang wrote: Everybody should assess their own situation and get a backup system that will cover them for a realistic worst case scenario. For me, it's a multipurpose jumpstarter. For those that require more power, if they choose to follow JohnBFishers advice, they can rest assured of having a completely safe backup system. Once assembled, there is no chance of even toddlers or foggy hoseheads getting hurt

Comment,

Burke, I could follow John Fisher's "advice" with a bit higher capacities of battery and inverter but not place them next to my bed in my bedroom. Why not place them in my garage, 75' away, or at the covered porch (in a temperature insulated box), 15' away, and run a 120 AC volt extension cord from the Inverter to my XPAP. As to the battery and inveter capacities, even if I use John's picks for his VPAP Adapt ASV, I could run my S9 Autoset, at 12 cm, plus H5i humidifier at #6 and even Climate control at 27 C (80 F), on it.

Burke, när kommer du att bli av med din Snarkning som jag ser det i diagrammet?

p.s. I have a hunch that the Guest in this thread is no other than Den Wulfman who started posting on this board in 2005 and accumulated more than 12,000 posts.

To print John Fisher's report on Battery Back up, and see the photos, I had to transfer it from the post here or the Wiki above, to Microsft WORD.


Post: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=49115&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... ery+backup


Wiki: wiki/index.php/Battery_Backup_Setup_for_xPAP

Sorry there are no photos in the Wiki, only the post. Why?

One could use the MS snipping tool, saving each snip as a separate file, then combining them in sequence as a PDF.
--or so I hope; haven't tried combining pages yet.

avi123 wrote:... Sorry there are no photos in the Wiki only the post. Why? ...

Uh ... 'Cause I got lazy and forgot to complete the Wiki. .. .. Someone pass the wet noodle. Time for the 50 lashes.

I will try to work on it this week. .. I might even put together a PDF version of the article, so folks can take it to someone if they want.

By the way, I will incorporate the idea of the Jump Starter option .. since it works for some people. My objective - as much as anything - is to be certain that people understand the risks for different tools. That way you can select the tool that best meets your needs.

When I'm done with it, I'll open it up for everyone for their input, review and correction. That way we can offer Wiki article to help folks looking for a backup solution. It should incorporate all the ideas that folks have.

Thanks for reminding me of that, avi123.

John Don't listen to all the nay sayers , most just want to argue for arguing sake and invoking "Chicken Little" scenarios and don't have much experience and/or actual knowledge of battery technology You have done a lot of people good by publishing your directions. I have built a system similar to yours and use it as my primary power for my cpap. I have a wet 120 AmpHour deep cycle battery underneath my night stand in a battery case. I have two more in my basement hooked up to a modified UPS for my computer system, and I sleep very well. As a physicist, this summer I helped some students make hydrogen powered soda bottle rockets. It took 20 minutes with a power supply set at 25 amps to generate hydrogen/oxygen from water to fill 1/3 of a two liter (750 ml) bottle and this is from a gas generator designed for making it, a battery would generate far less hydrogen and only after it became fully charged. Because hydrogen is less dense than air ,at these rates it will rise and dissipate creating no danger. As a side note and I really hate to mention it here. but as a teenager I made a hydrogen/oxygen generator and used it to fill a six foot diameter weather balloon, I can't remember how much current I used, but it took me over three weeks running it continuously, to fill the balloon. I will say it made a wonderful fireball when detonated, but the amount of effort to make and store the gases hardly made it worth it.

JohnBFisher wrote:By the way, I will incorporate the idea of the Jump Starter option .. since it works for some people. My objective - as much as anything - is to be certain that people understand the risks for different tools. That way you can select the tool that best meets your needs.

avi123 wrote:An older post about using a start jumper:

in the thread "another battery option" the op mentions to increase the capacity you can simply clip the jumper cables to a larger battery if/when needed
consider adding that as another option in your wiki too

See below

BATTERY BACKUP FOR USERS OF RESMED S9 Autoset or S9 Elite MACHINES

Going by John Fisher’s report on Battery Backup Design, I think that the following would be OK for those using these machines:

John’s post on it:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=49115&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... ery+backup

The power supply that comes with the S9 Autoset and S9 Elite machines is a ResMed 90 Watt AC adapter , input is 100-240 V AC -50 to 60 Hz, 1.0 -1.5 Amp. Output is 24 V DC-3.75 Amp. This Adapter allows the machines to run with the humidifier at a #6 full setting, plus Climate control at full setting of 30 degrees C, EPR zero to 3, and pressures up to the maximum of 20 cm. Such requirements would require a backup battery of 80 Amp-hours for 8 hours use (6.7 current draw at 12 V DC).

From BatteriesPlus, this battery of 90 Amp-hours should be OK, according to Resmed Battery Guide:



Link:
http://www.batteriesplus.com/product/33 ... p-27M.aspx

However, if maximum XPAP air pressure is 12 cm then this smaller 74 Amp-hours battery should be OK for 8 hours use, according to ResMed Battery Guide:



Link:

http://www.batteriesplus.com/product/44 ... up-65.aspx

Resmed Buttery Guide:

http://www.resmed.com/us/assets/documen ... lo_eng.pdf

The Battery Tender Jr, and rings terminal harness, that John uses, should be OK:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CITK8S/?ta ... 4x5vcsn9_b

The Tripp.Lite 150 watt PowerVerter (Inverter) that John uses also should fit this case:

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/Tripp- ... _TRI-PV150

What’s left is to go to BatteriesPlus or other place and get a quote from them for the Strong Box to be re-worked and all the connectors to be installed and assembled per John’s photos.

Estimated prices:

From this source for the Batteries and Battery Strong Box:

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... sNum=50546

The prices for the other stuff are from Amazon.

Battery 75 amp-hours………………....$170
Battery 90 amp-hours………………....$195
Only one of the above.
Tripp Lite 150 watt inverter……………$32
Buttery Tender Junior…………….………$24
Powerlet Luggage Electrix Connector
and Cigarette Socket………………….....$45
Other cables and buttery stuff…est$100
Strong Box………………………………….……$30
Straps……………………………………………...$50
Labor on installation……………….…est$200
Total FOB (without S&H)………………………….$626

avi123 wrote:
Estimated prices:
From this source for the Batteries and Battery Strong Box:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... sNum=50546
The prices for the other stuff are from Amazon.
Battery 75 amp-hours………………….$170
Battery 90 amp-hours………………...$195
Only one of the above.
Tripp Lite 150 watt inverter……………$32
Buttery Tender Junior…………….………$24
Powerlet Luggage Electrix Connector
and Cigarette Socket……………………....$45
Other cables and buttery stuff….est$100
Strong Box………………………………….……$30
Straps……………………………………………...$50
Labor on installation……………….…est$200
Total FOB (without S&H)………………………….$626

Any thoughts?

$100 - 1) "Deep cycle" marine battery. example: http://www.walmart.com/ip/EverStart-Max ... ifications

$13 - 2) Battery box with straps - http://www.autozone.com/autozone/access ... 571729_0_0_

$30 - 3) Float charger. You need one that can stay hooked up to the battery all the time and not damage it. I've used several types and had several that are supposed to be a "float" charger, but they still ate the battery up over time. The one that's worked for me through several chargers and batteries is the Schumacher SE-1-12s. The last time I bought one, the cheapest and easiest place to get one was AutoZone. http://www.autozone.com/autozone/access ... 513702_0_0_

$85 - 4) ResMed S9 adapter https://www.cpap.com/productpage/DC-Con ... hines.html. An inverter or Respironics connector would be cheaper.

$10 - Extension cord to plug the charger in.

$0 - Labor? All you need is someone to carry the box into the bedroom and set it in the box, if you can't handle it yourself.


$238 total.

No other cables or battery stuff needed.

Thoughts:

$626-$238 = $388 too high.

If you want a sealed battery vs. a normal deep cycle, they are great, but cost more. I may go price one soon. I have some old batteries to recycle at batteries plus. They're a good place, but maybe a little pricey.

BTW, be VERY careful about buying a "Deep Cycle" on Amazon or quite a few other places. I did a quick look on Amazon and a few other places, and many of the "Deep Cycle" batteries are starting or dual purpose batteries incorrectly labeled as "Deep Cycle." Just because it's "AGM" or "Gel" or "Sealed" does not mean it's actually deep cycle.

[quote="archangle"][quote="avi123"]


$0 - Labor? All you need is someone to carry the box into the bedroom and set it in the box, if you can't handle it yourself.


[quote]

What about drilling those holes thru the box wall? Are you going to come and do it for free?

No holes needed in my setup.

avi123 wrote:What about drilling those holes thru the box wall?

Why drill holes? Look into a battery box that already has the 12v connector installed. Something like the MinnKota PN# 1820175 or the SeaSense Deluxe Power Station PN# 50090682.

FYI on batteries - Costco (Kirkland brand) has two deepcycle batteries:
1) PN# 12851, 85 Amp Hours, 30 month warranty, $73.00
2) PN# 12852, 115 Amp Hours, 30 month warranty, $83.00

I recently assembled a 115Ah unit for $210 to use when Sandy hit:
1) MinnKota Trolling battery box w/ 2 12v accessory plugs. PN# 1820175 Wal-Mart cost: $52.00
2) Schumacher 1.5 Amp Automatic battery Maintainer/Charger PN#SE-1-12S Walmart cost: $44.00
3) Phillips Respironics 12 Volt DC Power Cord Item #1001956 CPAP.com price: $25.00
4) Kirkland (Costco) brand marine deepcycle 115 Amp hour battery PN# 12852 Costco price $89.00

Chris

archangle wrote:BTW, be VERY careful about buying a "Deep Cycle" on Amazon or quite a few other places.

Espically if you plan on purchasing an Optima battery via Amazon. It seems that Amazon is not an "authorized reseller" for Optima. So getting warranty issues resolved on an Amazon purchased Optima could be a headache. Google search for "amazon optima battery warranty"

Chris

I'd be very leery of buying an Optima battery. I've had many of them over the years and have not been pleased. Mainly because their deep cycle capacity is on the low end especially considering their price. Others may differ and some swear by them.
The least expensive way to have 12v deep cycle amp hours at the lowest long term cost for me has been using two 6v golf cart batteries in series. Most will not want to go that route as they are big and heavy. I have gone that way in several RVs over the years and have a fixed installation of them at my remote mountain camp that has no commercial power.

BTW Sams Club in some areas is carrying a Duracell brand 12V AGM that looks promising- http://www.samsclub.com/sams/duracell-a ... tion=#spec for $166 and an 18 month free replacement I will probably try one when my last Optima fails. It is rated at 105 amp hours at the 20 amp rate.

BudSky wrote:I'd be very leery of buying an Optima battery. I've had many of them over the years and have not been pleased. Mainly because their deep cycle capacity is on the low end especially considering their price. Others may differ and some swear by them.
The least expensive way to have 12v deep cycle amp hours at the lowest long term cost for me has been using two 6v golf cart batteries in series. Most will not want to go that route as they are big and heavy. I have gone that way in several RVs over the years and have a fixed installation of them at my remote mountain camp that has no commercial power.

BTW Sams Club in some areas is carrying a Duracell brand 12V AGM that looks promising- http://www.samsclub.com/sams/duracell-a ... tion=#spec for $166 and an 18 month free replacement I will probably try one when my last Optima fails. It is rated at 105 amp hours at the 20 amp rate.

Question:

On that Duracell battery, how do you read the capacity for these specs:

Specifications

•1 amp hour rate:68.2
•100 amp hour rate:110
•20 amp hour rate:105
•3 amp hour rate:85
•5 amp hour rate:86
•6 amp hour rate:87.4
•8 amp hour rate:90
•BCI Group Size:31
•CCA at 0 degrees F:800
•MCA at 32 degrees F:1000
•Minutes at 15 amps:348
•Minutes at 25 amps:210
•Minutes at 5 amps:1265
•Minutes at 50 amps:87.4
•Minutes at 75 amps:53
•Minutes at 8 amps:706
•Reserve Capacity:200
•Volts:12

If I need 49 Amp hours of 4.1 Amp current draw at 12 V DC, how many hours would this battery last on a charge?
Same question for 78 Amp hours of 6.5 Amp current draw?