CPAPtalk.com

carbonman wrote:

jnk wrote:It is impossible to answer the question meaningfully .

With a degree in philosophy........

WHY do you want fries w/that?

Because I have been conditioned since childhood to associate potato products with happy clowns and bright colors and it all makes me feel yummy inside like when I was a kid.

You?

Sloop wrote:I am sitting here LMAO when I read posts where melatonin is put along side the same degree of danger as Ambien. But go ahead -- buy into it.

Any product that can make you sleepy can kill you, and others, if you drive. The degree of danger depends on the circumstances and the individual.

But I agree that for the average person in the average circumstance, his doctor is likely to see melatonin as being a relatively safe short-term OTC choice for him that is unlikely to do much damage even if it doesn't do much good.

If a person is medically deficient in the hormone, that is one thing. If it is being taken as a substitute for good sleep hygiene, that may be another.

But, hey, I ain't no doc.

Lance knows a thing or two about possible repercussions from taking artificial substances into the body and the need to be careful when doing so: http://www.livestrong.com/article/18131 ... R1&LS-2659

Sloop wrote:I am sitting here LMAO when I read posts where melatonin is put along side the same degree of danger as Ambien. But go ahead -- buy into it.

Are you saying melatonin is safer or more dangerous than aspirin?

Me personally, I'm not that concerned about melatonin unless you're taking a lot of it.

lazer wrote:

Oh well, it seemed to work ok for me whilst on it BUT due to all the horror stories and the video, it got me thinking and I have since switched to the big pharma - Zolpidem or whatever it's called (Generic Ambien) 10mg.

Wow! How disappointing.

Sloop wrote:I am sitting here LMAO when I read posts where melatonin is put along side the same degree of danger as Ambien. But go ahead -- buy into it.

Sloop, Maybe I need to laugh more instead of getting frustrated.

However I offer a caveat on melatonin. Use the right dosage as indicated here,

Java wrote:You should read this post about melatonin. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=82542&hilit=melatonin

If I remember correctly, Lazer was using 10 times the dosage recommended in the video.

The conventional perspective on melatonin (and serotonin and tryptophan) is that they are safe and good for sleep. A perusal of a number of different lines of research, however, reveal that they all pose some rather distressing side effects, ranging from brain dysfunction/degeneration, muscle pain, inflammation, free radical production, to circulatory problems and cancer (read Tryptophan Side Effects: L-Tryptophan Is Far From Harmless). This doesn't appear to suggest that these substances should be intentionally raised on a continuous basis.

My attitude is, "if it aint formally FDA approved," I aint messing with it. With one exception. Exercise. The more exercise the better. I dont like messing with hormones and stuff. If you are absolutely loaded with $$$$ and you can afford to bypass health insurance entirely and pay all out of pocket, an ongoing and intense relationship with an endocrinologist I believe can lead to improvements in health (possibly, in some cases). But if you are like most and most of your payment is from health insurance, which has all sorts of restrictions, how frequently you can see an endocrinologist, what they can test for, what they can prescribe, blah blah blah blah...its just not worth it. They get you in deep enough just enough to screw you up a little more.

It is impossible for a Medical Doctor to be thorough in today's health insurance climate. Absolutely impossible. So thats why I say unless it is something very critical like diabetes or thyroid problems, dont mess with your hormones with over the counter, non FDA approved stuff. You dont know what you are doing to your body. Tweaking hormones is 1) best avoided unless truly necessary medically and 2) requires ongoing endocrinologist specialist care.

Eric

Suddenly Worn Out wrote:My attitude is, "if it aint formally FDA approved," I aint messing with it. With one exception. Exercise. The more exercise the better. I dont like messing with hormones and stuff. If you are absolutely loaded with $$$$ and you can afford to bypass health insurance entirely and pay all out of pocket, an ongoing and intense relationship with an endocrinologist I believe can lead to improvements in health (possibly, in some cases). But if you are like most and most of your payment is from health insurance, which has all sorts of restrictions, how frequently you can see an endocrinologist, what they can test for, what they can prescribe, blah blah blah blah...its just not worth it. They get you in deep enough just enough to screw you up a little more.

It is impossible for a Medical Doctor to be thorough in today's health insurance climate. Absolutely impossible. So thats why I say unless it is something very critical like diabetes or thyroid problems, dont mess with your hormones with over the counter, non FDA approved stuff. You dont know what you are doing to your body. Tweaking hormones is 1) best avoided unless truly necessary medically and 2) requires ongoing endocrinologist specialist care.

Eric

Well, FDA approved psych meds destroyed 15 years of my life so I don't go by the mantra that just because something is FDA approved that it is safe. And besides my personal experience, how many times have drugs been approved only to be taken off of the market due to safety concerns?

Since falling sleep is not an issue for me, I don't use melatonin for that purpose. Unfortunately, when I have tried to use it to get back to sleep, it has worked about 33% of the time. But if it worked, I would have no hesitation about using it.

A sleep doctor out of my area who I would have seen in a heartbeat if he had been in my area, is a big proponent of melatonin. He advises patients to start at .25 mg and work up to 1mg if necessary. Also, he feels it is best used when sundown occurs as in his opinion, it prepares you for sleep.

Hmm, I guess I need to remember that when I reach for melatonin in trying to get back to sleep.

49er

Suddenly Worn Out wrote:My attitude is, "if it aint formally FDA approved," I aint messing with it.

You are relying on a corrupt organization -> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/us/fd ... .html?_r=0

The FDA is also an incompetent organization:

49er wrote:FDA approved psych meds destroyed 15 years of my life so I don't go by the mantra that just because something is FDA approved that it is safe. And besides my personal experience, how many times have drugs been approved only to be taken off of the market due to safety concerns?

The FDA admits to approving drugs that kill 100,000 people annually:

49er wrote:Well, FDA approved psych meds destroyed 15 years of my life so I don't go by the mantra that just because something is FDA approved that it is safe. And besides my personal experience, how many times have drugs been approved only to be taken off of the market due to safety concerns?

If something that has been thoroughly tested to be safe and effective turns out to sometimes not be safe an effective, why would you assume that something that has NOT been tested to be safe and effective is going to be safe and effective.

Besides which, we've always known that most drugs have some side effects. That's why we test them. There are very few drugs, artificial or natural, that have strong positive medical effects that don't have a risk of significant negative side effects.

The FDA approves a good number of drugs that turn out to be harmful to the patient in unforeseeable ways. At the same time, the FDA approves a very large number of drugs which if used in the manner they are meant to be used for, are totally safe and totally effective. For example the ACE Inhibitor lisinopril I take for hypertension. Its a very good medication with a good side effect profile. The SSRI I take for depression, it has a minimal side effect profile taking into account the God awful deadliness of clinical depression.

The FDA could use a lot of improvement as an organization. That is true. There is a lot of outside pressure on them to approve drugs that are either not all that effective and/or have side effect profiles that really are not tolerable or acceptable. But who would you want approving prescription medications? The same groups that "approves" OTC supplements? Like they too do not have outside financial pressures on them to go along with too good to be true claims of the supplements industry?

Sheesh...

Eric

ChicagoGranny wrote: . . . a corrupt organization . . .

Please list three governmental organizations that aren't.

Now, for extra credit, explain in an essay why you have drawn the personal conclusion that they aren't, according to your personal definition of "corruption," since it would be impossible to prove either way.

archangle wrote:

49er wrote:Well, FDA approved psych meds destroyed 15 years of my life so I don't go by the mantra that just because something is FDA approved that it is safe. And besides my personal experience, how many times have drugs been approved only to be taken off of the market due to safety concerns?

If something that has been thoroughly tested to be safe and effective turns out to sometimes not be safe an effective, why would you assume that something that has NOT been tested to be safe and effective is going to be safe and effective.

Besides which, we've always known that most drugs have some side effects. That's why we test them. There are very few drugs, artificial or natural, that have strong positive medical effects that don't have a risk of significant negative side effects.

A big fat sigh!

Where in my post was I extolling the virtues of melatonin or supplements? Instead of making invalid assumptions maybe you need to go back and read what I previously said about items not approved by FDA. I said that supplements can have side effects also and just because they were natural doesn't mean they were safe.

49er

Eric,

As I just mentioned to Archangle, I am just as leery of supplements and have suffered side effects from so called ones that were harmless. Totally agree about the conflicts of interest.

But regarding the FDA, since only 2 to 10% of all serious side effects are ever reported to the agency, they may not be as safe as you think they are. Sorry, I don't have the link but I am not fishing it out of thin air.

Anyway, I am glad you have had a positive experience with meds and hope it continues.

49er

Suddenly Worn Out wrote:The FDA approves a good number of drugs that turn out to be harmful to the patient in unforeseeable ways. At the same time, the FDA approves a very large number of drugs which if used in the manner they are meant to be used for, are totally safe and totally effective. For example the ACE Inhibitor lisinopril I take for hypertension. Its a very good medication with a good side effect profile. The SSRI I take for depression, it has a minimal side effect profile taking into account the God awful deadliness of clinical depression.

The FDA could use a lot of improvement as an organization. That is true. There is a lot of outside pressure on them to approve drugs that are either not all that effective and/or have side effect profiles that really are not tolerable or acceptable. But who would you want approving prescription medications? The same groups that "approves" OTC supplements? Like they too do not have outside financial pressures on them to go along with too good to be true claims of the supplements industry?

Sheesh...

Eric

ChicagoGranny wrote:
. . . a corrupt organization . . .

Please list three governmental organizations that aren't.

Board of Tea Appeals
Office of War Information (OWI)
Works Progress Administration (WPA)

At least not now.

VVV wrote:

lazer wrote:

Oh well, it seemed to work ok for me whilst on it BUT due to all the horror stories and the video, it got me thinking and I have since switched to the big pharma - Zolpidem or whatever it's called (Generic Ambien) 10mg.

Wow! How disappointing.

Sloop wrote:I am sitting here LMAO when I read posts where melatonin is put along side the same degree of danger as Ambien. But go ahead -- buy into it.

Sloop, Maybe I need to laugh more instead of getting frustrated.

However I offer a caveat on melatonin. Use the right dosage as indicated here,

Java wrote:You should read this post about melatonin. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=82542&hilit=melatonin

If I remember correctly, Lazer was using 10 times the dosage recommended in the video.

5Mg Max per one night? = 10x recommended? I'll have to re-watch the video.

Anyhow, the generic Ambien 10mg seems to be working fine for me. Maybe someday I will return to the Melatonin.