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Re: Service Dogs for Sleep Apnea
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:34 am
by DreamStalker
ChicagoGranny wrote:snip ....
separating the chaff from the wheat. (Or in this forum I guess to prevent being "assaulted" I should say, "separating the wheat from the paleo".)
.... snip
So you can teach an old granny new tricks
Maybe the OP should bypass teaching the dog to tap him/her awake while driving and just teach the dog to drive instead.
Re: Service Dogs for Sleep Apnea
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:42 am
by ChicagoGranny
DreamStalker wrote:
So you can teach an old granny new tricks
What makes you think I am old Punkface?
Re: Service Dogs for Sleep Apnea
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:45 am
by DreamStalker
ChicagoGranny wrote:DreamStalker wrote:
So you can teach an old granny new tricks
What makes you think I am old Punkface?
Aw ... no need to waste energy thinking about it ... it's quite obvious to any punk on the forum.
Re: Service Dogs for Sleep Apnea
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:10 am
by Still tired
A service dog to wake you while driving ? That's like trying to text War & Peace while driving.
Re: Service Dogs for Sleep Apnea
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:12 am
by Conrad
I wonder how well a service mini horse would work?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/1 ... ef=chicago
Dang those lil fellers are cute!
I wonder if they can be trained to fetch the TV remote and get me a beer?
Re: Service Dogs for Sleep Apnea
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:01 am
by zoocrewphoto
ChicagoGranny wrote:49er wrote: what medical credentials do you have
49er
We come here because the people with medical credentials are failing us in one way or another. We don't want more of the same. We want patients who have struggled with the same issues we have to tell us how they became successful.
I expect, despite the whining of a few, poor advice will continue to be quickly and frankly "assaulted" by people who know better. That is a good thing for the forum - separating the chaff from the wheat. (Or in this forum I guess to prevent being "assaulted" I should say, "separating the wheat from the paleo".)
Many of our successful approaches are not cut and dried and a variety of approaches are needed to suit a great variety of patients. Controversy from this is a natural human condition and should not be shied away from. Get it out in the open quickly!
I completely agree. As a relative beginner, I appreciate that any bad or questionable advice is challenged right away. When I first joined, I spent hours reading older topics. It helped to see right away that something that may have sounded good, but wasn't good, was actually questionable, so that I could make an educated decision before considering it. I think debate of those topics really helps.
In topics that are very serious, such as alternative treatment that is extremely questionable, it means that some people who are new, still in denial, etc, could be making a life or death decision. I believe it is important to give them both sides. Otherwise, they may see one topic, unchallenged, and believe they are correct in quitting or using some non-treatment. I remember a thread of somebody coming here and basically saying that sleep apnea doesn't really exist and the machines and doctors are all a scam. Can you imagine somebody in denial finding that post first without seeing any rebuttal?
Anybody see the new commercial for an insurance company where a lady believes everything she reads on the internet, including that her boyfriend is a french model? some people really do believe just about anything they read. We would be unethical not to challenge dangerous advice.
As for this very topic, the idea that a dog in the car will make a person safe to drive? This not only hurts the person doing this, but risks the lives of other people. It would be very dangerous to let this go, and sometimes, it is best to slap it down hard when somebody is serious denial. It's bad enough when they risk their own life, but risking everybody else's life is worse.
Re: Service Dogs for Sleep Apnea
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:24 pm
by kerriberri
ChicagoGranny wrote:
I expect, despite the whining of a few, poor advice will continue to be quickly and frankly "assaulted" by people who know better. That is a good thing for the forum - separating the chaff from the wheat. (Or in this forum I guess to prevent being "assaulted" I should say, "separating the wheat from the paleo".)
Many of our successful approaches are not cut and dried and a variety of approaches are needed to suit a great variety of patients. Controversy from this is a natural human condition and should not be shied away from. Get it out in the open quickly!
Oh, good: now we're "whiners."
Personally, I don't have a problem with people "assaulting" bad advice. I do still have a problem with hostile posters attacking others and berating their intelligence. If you disagree with ADVICE, then disagree with the ADVICE. Don't call someone an ignoramus, idiot, liar, spammer, Neanderthal, etc.
Sometimes, I think the internet would be a MUCH more hospitable place if everyone remembered that one day, their screen name could be shifted to their real world name or email address. Accountability is not such a bad thing. Personally, I try to operate on the assumption that one day, all my online identities may be unmasked and integrated. I want to feel good about the digital trail I leave behind.
I do wish more people would try to remember that words matter. It's not just what you say, but how you say it.
Now, personally, I am not so fragile as to be "run off" from a forum like this. Generally, the advice is sincere and delivered with great intentions. I also know to double-check info and sources, as do most visitors here. Never would I seriously consider a service dog as a brilliant device to save me from a potential head-on collision.
I also "get" sarcasm, humor, and lighthearted banter. Humor's great & much needed, especially by people fighting a life-threatening condition. And their families. Keep it (and your) cool, friends!
Re: Service Dogs for Sleep Apnea
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:04 pm
by WearyOne
.
I've been here a long time and there are two things that have been solid as concrete for all that time: People who can't seem to disagree without being nasty and this place has some awesome people who can help you with almost anything related to CPAP.
There are some people on here who just can't seem to figure out how to disagree with someone, point them in the right direction, tell them their idea is dangerous, etc., without name-calling and being nasty, hostile, and belittling to the PERSON, rather than working the issue. It's been that way since I've been on here and I'm sure it will continue. Some of those people from "back then" are not on here now, some still are, and I see there are some newer ones taking it up. I've seen it mostly in OT threads, but it does pop up in other ones as well.
And then there's the best part...You get great advice, help, and support for whatever phase you're in and whatever your problems. Don't know what I would have done without this place the first few years I was on cpap. The paragraph above is unfortunate, but it's worth wading through that for the wonderful support that most do offer here.
As far as relying on a dog to keep you awake instead of treating with cpap or a dental device, I can't see any situation where that would work if your untreated OSA causes issues staying awake during the day. I'm thinking, too, that wouldn't someone have to doze off before the dog would wake them up? That wouldn't work when driving.
Re: Service Dogs for Sleep Apnea
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:58 pm
by chunkyfrog
The truly beautiful thing about the forum (and many others) is that differing
and even conflicting views are promptly offered up. As mentioned before,
this is probably the best way to let a person see what different people think about
something unusual or new --(that may or may not have yet been proven.)
The promoters of any new drug, device, or surgical procedure do not like this means of introduction.
It shines a bright light from many directions--where they would much prefer a one-sided presentation.
And, of course, this forum is populated by dedicated users of the gold standard of therapy for OSA.
Submitting a proposal here for an outrageous alternative to treatment simply invites opposition.
Re: Service Dogs for Sleep Apnea
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:26 am
by Sleep2Die4
kerriberri wrote: Sometimes, I think the internet would be a MUCH more hospitable place if
I found this forum to be a very hospitable place to me and certainly a great help with CPAP.
You find what you look for.
Re: Service Dogs for Sleep Apnea
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:47 am
by 49er
chunkyfrog wrote:The truly beautiful thing about the forum (and many others) is that differing
and even conflicting views are promptly offered up. As mentioned before,
this is probably the best way to let a person see what different people think about
something unusual or new --(that may or may not have yet been proven.)
The promoters of any new drug, device, or surgical procedure do not like this means of introduction.
It shines a bright light from many directions--where they would much prefer a one-sided presentation.
And, of course, this forum is populated by dedicated users of the gold standard of therapy for OSA.
Submitting a proposal here for an outrageous alternative to treatment simply invites opposition.
I wanted to clarify what I said previously. There are awesome people on this forum who I can't thank enough for their help.
But at the same time, I am saddened by so many hostile responses in certain forums in which you would have thought that the OP committed murder. Even if someone has written what you think is the dumbest thing you have ever read in your life, is it really that much of an effort to make your point without excoriating the person?
Is everyone on this board perfect? Have you all always said or done the perfect thing throughout your life?
Also what one person may think is an outrageous alternative to treatment may be a lifesaver for someone else as in the case of provent therapy who can't tolerate cpap treatment. Just because something doesn't have the alleged gold standard of proof doesn't mean that idea should be blown off as the most idiotic thing someone has said.
I know from personal experience in the case of being told that SSRIs were the gold standard of treatment for depression only to find out that wasn't necessarily the case.
Anyway, to end on a positive note, I profusely thank the folks who have been extremely generous with their assistance via pm and on the board with their responses to me and other people who needed assistance.
49er
Re: Service Dogs for Sleep Apnea
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:35 am
by The Choker
kerriberri wrote: Don't call someone an ignoramus, idiot, liar, spammer, Neanderthal, etc.
49er wrote: Is everyone on this board perfect? Have you all always said or done the perfect thing throughout your life?
I did not see the original post before it was edited and I scanned the thread quickly so I might have missed something, but it doesn't look like anyone used those names or claimed to be perfect.
Do I need to say it is disingenuous to resort to fabricating claims?
I suggest this thread be ended. It would seem that everyone agrees dogs, as wonderful as they are, are not an acceptable treatment for sleep apnea. Why not end this with everyone in full agreement?
Woof.
Re: Service Dogs for Sleep Apnea
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:27 am
by DreamStalker
The Choker wrote:kerriberri wrote: Don't call someone an ignoramus, idiot, liar, spammer, Neanderthal, etc.
49er wrote: Is everyone on this board perfect? Have you all always said or done the perfect thing throughout your life?
I did not see the original post before it was edited and I scanned the thread quickly so I might have missed something, but it doesn't look like anyone used those names or claimed to be perfect.
Do I need to say it is disingenuous to resort to fabricating claims?
I suggest this thread be ended. It would seem that everyone agrees dogs, as wonderful as they are, are not an acceptable treatment for sleep apnea. Why not end this with everyone in full agreement?
Woof.
I agree but I have to say that I've seen dogs drive cars on TV so there is hope.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10MOOTUBDSg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp5DkqAxvAI
Re: Service Dogs for Sleep Apnea
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:13 pm
by ems
The Choker wrote:kerriberri wrote: Don't call someone an ignoramus, idiot, liar, spammer, Neanderthal, etc.
49er wrote: Is everyone on this board perfect? Have you all always said or done the perfect thing throughout your life?
I did not see the original post before it was edited and I scanned the thread quickly so I might have missed something, but it doesn't look like anyone used those names or claimed to be perfect.
Do I need to say it is disingenuous to resort to fabricating claims?
Why would you think that claims are being fabricated? Are these people not entitled to their feelings? They are talking about what they perceive, not the
exact words... again, it's the bigger picture.
Re: Service Dogs for Sleep Apnea
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:24 pm
by JohnBFisher
ems wrote:... Why would you think that claims are being fabricated? Are these people not entitled to their feelings? They are talking about what they perceive, not the exact words... again, it's the bigger picture. ...
If you don't mind, I'll jump into this. Let me back it up a little farther.
If someone is trying to train dogs to be service dogs for sleep apnea patients, then it's a REALLY poor use of very valuable resources.
If someone is trying to claim their pet dog is a service dog for sleep apnea, then it's literally a felony!!!!
Code: Select all
Public access with a service dog is limited to people with disabilities as defined by the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and to dogs that meet the ADA definition of service animals. Misrepresenting oneself as disabled or misrepresenting a pet as a service animal can result in prosecution for federal felony fraud. The penalty for a federal fraud conviction includes extensive fines and up to 5 years in prison. Such misrepresentation can also result in criminal prosecution under state laws in a number of states.
See:
http://www.livingblind.com/policy.html
Or search for "misrepresenting pet as service dog felony"
Additionally, outside of the felony aspect of it, when a "fake" team encounters the public, it makes it harder for real teams to be accepted. Training a dog to be a service dog takes a LOT of work. It takes a long time. People become incensed about this because (a) a service dog for sleep is not work a valid therapy, (b) sleep apnea is not considered a disabling disorder, and (c) it makes it tougher for the valid service dog teams.
That really is the bigger picture.