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Re: UNIVERSAL SLEEP APNEA PATIENT BILL OF RIGHTS

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:20 am
by notyorz
archangle wrote: 2) No Full Face Masks unless the patient has problems with nasal masks. They leak more and can make apnea worse because they can push the jaw back.
Before I begin, yes, I read the part that says "unless the patient has problems...". But define problems. Shouldn't it just be a matter of personal choice? Why does someone only get to choose a ffm because there is a problem? WHO gets to decide what those problems are? Do you suggest giving the power to decide to the doctor or DME??? Don't they already have enough power when it comes to choosing our equipment? Aren't we trying to put the power into the patient's hands? This seems like a step backward. Why should someone have to prove they have a problem just to get the mask that works best for them? What about patient comfort?

Before you think I've got my panties in a wad, rest assured they are calm questions. I'd really like to know the answers if this is what you're suggesting.

I get it that there are those who really want the nasal masks to work for everyone, but there are instances (mine included) where this is not possible without surgery to correct the issue. I am NOT willing to do the surgery as I am a high risk for general anesthesia. I would have fixed the L4 & L5 disks and grade 3 spondololysthesis by now with a fusion if possible, so if I'm not willing to risk surgery for that, I sure am not willing to do it for my nose since APAP therapy works.

I also am NOT willing to have it mandated in a patient's bill of rights stating that no full face masks will be made available to me. Not cool. I'd hate to not have that option. My full face mask (Liberty) works wonders for me. Leaks are under control each and every night and it does not push my jaw back.

I really do wish people would at least try to be tolerant of those of us who want the right to choose FFM's.

And for the Patient's Bill of Rights: EVERY PATIENT SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE MASKS/EQUIPMENT/DME'S, regardless of insurance coverage (or not)!

Re: UNIVERSAL SLEEP APNEA PATIENT BILL OF RIGHTS

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:30 am
by -tim
Jim: Welcome of the opening day of the American Sleep Apnea Association games here in Rome . At our first event we have the favored Aussie team in the Resmed colors competing with the rising stars from Phillips. The odds are with the Kiwis to take 3rd place which is a fall from their 2nd place just 3 years ago. Now Bob, can you tell our audience more about this event?

Bob: Thanks. This event is about encouraging legislation to maintain a monopoly position from government buyers. This isn't just a sprint to the end, but an obstacle corse where each curve must be negotiated with the precision of a bobsled driver.

Jim: Well first off the line is Resmed with their limited country warrantee. What do you think about this Bob? Oh wait, did Puritan Bennett just drive over a cliff?

Bob: It looks like P&B is now jelly. The internet is causing Resmed to take a beating on this attack but they are still have the lead since they have taken shots at the DMEs who aren't even competing in this event.

Jim: You have to watch these events where anything goes. I didn't even know guns were allowed.

Bob: The events are "anything goes" and the only rule is to win!

Jim: Its an exciting thing now that it appears that Respironics have themselves a congress critter. We haven't seen such a blatant attempt to over take the leader here every before.

Bob: Jim, I think if you review the events at the last games, the politicians where always there just never thrust into the action like this poor sucker.

Jim: We need to break for a commercial now but we will get right back to the action and remember that tomorrow will be the finals for the condescending event where the best of the worst sleep doctors will be insulting patients for looking at doctor stuff! Don't miss it! That will be followed in the week with patent wars where one obvious idea can cost the end users millions while sidelining the other competitors for a few hours!

Commercial: Need to make sure you don't have any "user serviceable" bits? Sanp-craptic Plastics Inc can help you design plastic that goes together and never can be fixed but assembles like a toy!

Re: UNIVERSAL SLEEP APNEA PATIENT BILL OF RIGHTS

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:12 am
by Guest
More education on masks and a sample of ffm, nasal and pillows at the sleep study (and hybrid if you need it). I was started with a nasal mask at my titration study and didn't know there were other types of masks. I faked having to go to the bathroom so I could take the mask off. The silicone felt like it was burning and I had a huge red mark after just a couple of hours! I come out of the bathroom almost in tears (knowing i need the therapy but no way i could keep that mask on due to the discomfort). I see the tech with nasal pillows (not that i knew what those were at the time). She said they were a last resort....i felt like a failure, Well at least they worked and come to find out they are widely used.

You pay so much for a sleep study and I'm sure they get the masks pretty cheap. It would be nice to walk away from the study with more sample masks (1 of each would be ideal).

Extra mask insurance coverage in the first 6 months would be great...so you can get a couple covered...even if the extra masks are covered at a lower rate.

Totally agree with a reasonable priced battery backup. IT IS A SAFETY ISSUE. As I understand even the battery for the S9 is not automatic...if you lose power you have to get up and attach the machine to the battery backup. I am nervous about losing power. I know that there are air holes in the masks, but a lot of the masks have warnings about suffication if worn without the machine. Or can the machine at least have a warning bell if power is interrupted. I know people on the forum have made their own battery backups...but i'm not that clever. I mean really, even my $10 alarm clock has a battery backup and the alarm clock has a lesser chance of saving my life.

Data capable machines and the training to use them. The ability to tweak your pressure if you want without an act of congress (prescriptions and DME involvement). I have the tools ..let it be my choice to use them without feeling like a criminal.

Re: UNIVERSAL SLEEP APNEA PATIENT BILL OF RIGHTS

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:48 am
by asleep@thewheel
The focus seems restricted to treatment options and very pap centrifugal which is all good but we need to broaden the focus for the good of all the apnea suffers treated and not treated so they don't have to stumble and fall repeatedly like many of us who found this forum when we needed it most.

I wonder about issues like keeping a driving permit if we are compliant and getting good therapy.

About Using CPAP While in a hospital.

Bottom Line is making SLEEP evaluation part of the medical protocol so the future sufferers don't wait so long to get treated.

Help Educate the medical community, teachers, parents, daycare workers, coworkers about all of the potential signs of oxygen/sleep deprivation and it's impact on our lives and possibly theirs.

Connecting the dots and building a team or a starting 5 so that an appropriate allergist, cardiologist, psychotherapist, endocrinologist, GI are all consulted instead of the patient acting as our own doctor which is what has happened to so many of us.

Once we get proper therapy and all other variables under control then we are capable of making better cognitive decisions.

Speaking for myself, there is no way in Hell that I could have ever imagined helping anyone else get through this maze of riddles without proper cpap therapy and paying off my sleep debt as much as possible.

Keep the conversation going and vent if you must but lets provide solutions if we can.

Thank you.

Re: UNIVERSAL SLEEP APNEA PATIENT BILL OF RIGHTS

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:31 am
by 2flamingos
Most insurance companies require an educational class for folks diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. Why isn't the same thing done for OSA? It is insane that we are expected to simply blindly follow and not take an active part in our treatment. While I firmly believe that there are very few on this forum that do that, I know there are many OSA suffers out there that are perfectly content to sit back and do nothing - literally and figuratively.

Re: UNIVERSAL SLEEP APNEA PATIENT BILL OF RIGHTS

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:14 pm
by asleep@thewheel
APNEA 101 I like that idea.

Re: UNIVERSAL SLEEP APNEA PATIENT BILL OF RIGHTS

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:38 pm
by robysue
Many of these are not new, but I want to list my support for them.

In my humble opinion as an OSA patient who struggled for months to get this crazy therapy to work, I believe that a newly diagnosed OSA patient shoulld have the following rights and expectations:

1) Any patient who undergoes an in-lab sleep test should be provided with a CD containing a copy of the raw data at the end of the test AND a complete copy of the written report (including the summary graphs) as soon as it is available; at the latest this should be at the next follow-up appointment with the doc.

2) A referral to a board-certified sleep doctor who actually meets with patients and treats them.

3) A thorough examination of the upper airway by a sleep doc (or their PA or nurse practitioner) where the anatomical anomalies that may be causing or contributing to the OSA are both documented and explained to the patient in clear language. A written summary of this examination with its findings should be provided to the patient at the end of the meeting.

4) A written copy of the prescription for a full efficacy data machine, heated humidifier, and mask of patient's choice. This prescription should be on official prescription paper with the prescriber's information on it. The "dispense as written" box should be checked so the DME cannot pull a switcheroo.

5) Full disclosure from the patient's insurance company concerning how the equipment is paid for and what the replacement schedule for the consumable supplies. At a minimum, the patient should know what the allowable amount for the equipment is, the patient's expected contribution, the insurance company's contribution, the terms of the sale (outright purchase or rent-to-own) for each item, and the replacement schedule for each consumable (filters, hoses, masks, and mask parts such as headgear, mask cushions, and nasal pillows). This information should be provided in writing and directly to the patient by the insurance company as soon as the equipment is prescribed; the patient should NOT have to beg for this information or rely on the DMAE or sleep doc's office to obtain it.

6) A choice of DMEs. No newly diagnosed OSA patient should receive a call from a DME the've never heard of saying, "We've got your equipment ready. When can you pick it up? (Or When can we deliver it to your house?)

7) Quality patient education programs. And as BlackSpinner said, 10 minutes is NOT enough. These patient education programs need to cover a tremendous amount of material including, but not necessarily limited to:
  • What OSA is and why OSA needs to be treated with some real information beyond "You quit breathing at night x-times an hour and you need a CPAP to minimize your risks for a host of comorbid conditions"
  • Setting reasonable expectations concerning the adjustment period, when one might start feeling better in the daytime, and how much better one can reasonably expect to feel given the other medical conditions the patient is dealing with
  • Using the CPAP machine itself---hands on instruction concerning such things as: patient control of exhalation relief, the ramp settings, and the humidifier and heated hose settings; connecting and disconnecting the humidifier from the blower unit; reading the data that is provided through the machine's LCD and hoe to make sense of that data
  • Using the Mask---hands on instruction concerning such things as: choosing a mask, fitting the chosen mask(s) correctly at full pressure, properly dissembling and assembling the mask, cleaning the mask, when to replace mask parts, when to replace the entire mask, improving mask comfort with mask pads, mask liners, and pillow cozies, and what do do if the current mask just isn't working out
  • Mask leaks and mouth breathing---what they are, how to use the data to determine if you are leaking when you are sound asleep and don't remember it, using anti-leak straps, chin straps, and taping, using a FFM or a hybrid mask for mouth breathing
  • Common adjustment problems and strategies for dealing with them including aerophagia, red marks on the face, dry eyes, dry mouth, dry nose, sore nose, sore teeth, "can't seem to get to sleep", "keep waking up", sore/stiff neck or back from sleeping in a funny position, "darth vader noises" are bothering to the new PAPer or bedpartner
  • When to call the sleep doc's office because the problems are not getting better or seem to be getting worse
  • What to do if you find that you are feeling much, much worse after starting PAP
  • Traveling with the PAP---what are your rights? how to make it easier?
  • Options concerning what to do in power outages and what to do while camping
  • Connecting with other CPAPers through on-line forums an face-to-face patient support groups
As this long list indicates, a proper patient education program may require meeting with (small) groups of patients several times over the course of, say, a three or four month period.

8) The ability to obtain the necessary software directly from the DME and/or the sleep doc's office. In an ideal world both the doc and the DME should be encouraging all their patients to actively monitor the efficacy of their therapy. And those who want to should not be made to feel that they have to obtain the necessary software in a clandestine fashion. 'Twould be even better if the DMEs or the docs would provide some patient education workshops on learning what all that data means and hoe to interpret it.

9) The expectation that determining the efficacy of the therapy will based on something more than just compliance data and the results of a one-night titration study---particularly when a patient self reports that CPAP seems to be them doing no good or is making their life miserable.

10) The expectation that OSA and CPAP difficulties will not be used to explain away numerous patient symptoms that persist long after the patient has become genuinely compliant with therapy that is known to be effective---i.e. the patient sleeps with the mask every night, all night long and the PAP machine's data indicates the leaks are under control and the AHI is consistently below 5.0

Re: UNIVERSAL SLEEP APNEA PATIENT BILL OF RIGHTS

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:45 pm
by asleep@thewheel
Wow! robbysue. Well said all the away around.

Re: UNIVERSAL SLEEP APNEA PATIENT BILL OF RIGHTS

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:49 pm
by SleepingUgly
Publicly portray people with sleep apnea as something other than overweight and/or dorky. Sexy would be nice.

Re: UNIVERSAL SLEEP APNEA PATIENT BILL OF RIGHTS

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:52 pm
by asleep@thewheel
"the Faces of Apnea" I like that as well my favorite avatar.

Re: UNIVERSAL SLEEP APNEA PATIENT BILL OF RIGHTS

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:52 pm
by chunkyfrog
Equipment should always be billed separately from services,
and patients should be able to shop around for both,
with insurance/Medicare covering all products equally regardless of local or online supplier.
Price fixing should be punishable by public flaying.

Re: UNIVERSAL SLEEP APNEA PATIENT BILL OF RIGHTS

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:28 am
by BasementDwellingGeek
1) Any patient who undergoes an in-lab sleep test should be provided with a CD containing a copy of the raw data at the end of the test AND a complete copy of the written report (including the summary graphs) as soon as it is available; at the latest this should be at the next follow-up appointment with the doc.
Wicked good idea! Not that many would benefit from the raw data, but those that could should have it.

Re: UNIVERSAL SLEEP APNEA PATIENT BILL OF RIGHTS

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:48 am
by 49er
Ok, I know I am living in fantasyland but I have been wanting to say this for quite awhile and here is my chance.

Get rid of the word, compliant. I think it is demeaning and implies that patient is at fault if he/she didn't follow the physician's advice when there are a million good reasons why the person didn't take the advised actions.

Also, the word implies obedience which I think is very insulting.

49er

Re: UNIVERSAL SLEEP APNEA PATIENT BILL OF RIGHTS

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:57 am
by asleep@thewheel
well said 49er.

How fitting today is independence day in the USA!

May the fourth be with you.

I hope to check back in tonight to see some short and to the point proposed amendments for the state of sleep.

Re: UNIVERSAL SLEEP APNEA PATIENT BILL OF RIGHTS

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:01 am
by archangle
notyorz wrote:
archangle wrote: 2) No Full Face Masks unless the patient has problems with nasal masks. They leak more and can make apnea worse because they can push the jaw back.
Before I begin, yes, I read the part that says "unless the patient has problems...". But define problems.
You misread my intent. DMEs and clinics often push FFM on patients because it's easier on the provider, not because it's better or easier for the patient. I think you should be able to get a FFM if you want one.

How about "No sleep professional will steer a patient into using a FFM unless it is in the patient's best interest because of mouth leaks or other problems with nasal masks for that particular patient. FFMs should not be recommended because it's less work for the sleep professional. The patient should be allowed to choose a FFM if he/she wants one.

The sleep professional should work with the patient to get the right mask for the patient and make it work."

i.e. Try to make a nasal mask work first before recommending a FFM.

I think it's especially important to not foist a FFM on a patient during a sleep test unless there are problems with nasal. FFMs can skew the test results upwards.