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BasementDwellingGeek wrote:This is my config file.

Thanks! I think a scheme can be devised to achieve near real-time reading/gathering the data. Then I can play with the idea of alarming should I be on my back for longer than N units of time. The "Hey, you are on your back!" alarm may seem to have merits on the face, but there may be a negative side to it, as I probably go on my back for a reason and that is assured arousals when I do. I'm guessing I go on my back because my body finds it easier to breath during REM (less weight resistance), but I have also noted that the rare nights that I am pretty sure I zonked on my tummy/side all night I felt quite good the next day. It is something to try at least. I'll also be able to gather better statistics in various positions, which I have no way to get now.

You need to be careful with what you try to invent or publicize. Robert F Dickerson has applied for patents on many applications of accelerometers in sleep.

See here under Sleep Monitoring:

http://robertdickerson.net/papers/phdproposal.pdf

And here about Monitoring Body Positions and Movements During Sleep
using WISPs:

http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~stankovic/psfiles/sleep.pdf

I did some research and there is enough prior art and public information that unless it is very specific these devices and concepts are not patentable and are unlikely to infringe on any existing patents.
There are already numerous examples of devices already on the market doing this.

avi123 wrote:You need to be careful with what you try to invent or publicize. Robert F Dickerson has applied for patents on many applications of accelerometers in sleep.

I'm not an IP attorney, tho I do employ them. Patents' purpose is to protect the inventor (assignee really) for a limited time in exchange for putting the invention later into the PUBLIC DOMAIN. 2nd, this is for personal use. 3rd it only supports the holder's position to litigate. People "violate" patents all the time and if the holder is aware and does not litigate, they lose (at least weaken) their rights. 4th, the patent has to be valid, non-obvious, etc.. 5th, it has to be still in effect. 6th, it must be filed prior to the "infringer's" discovery and development. A lab notebook, bound, numbered pages, signed and witnessed by page beats a patent if said "discovery" or "invention" pre-dates the patent filing.

This is one reason why our company does not patent, but does trade-secrets, religious adherence to lab books, while our customers do hold patents on how they use our technologies.

BTW:
Results of Search in US Patent Collection db for:
sleep AND accelerometer: 1717 patents.

LOTS of them out there.

I know every thing I've done seemed pretty obvious to me.

BasementDwellingGeek wrote:I know every thing I've done seemed pretty obvious to me.

Seems that way to me, too !

I had a global mega corporation try to steal our intellectual property one time. They "benchmarked" our technologies under the guise of adopting it globally (dangling large $ as bait) when in fact they were trying to replicate it internally, which they did and FAILED. Why? Because the key critical technologies were trade-secret and I would not tell them how it worked. If I had patented it, their sharp IP Attorneys could have found a way to navigate around what had been documented in the patent, or bald-face violate my patent and taunt me to litigate them since they had way more $ than I. Trade secret worked very well in that situation, as we continue to sell significant $ into the market they FAILED in. We had record sales last year.

This is a great application.

MaxDarkside wrote:

avi123 wrote:You need to be careful with what you try to invent or publicize. Robert F Dickerson has applied for patents on many applications of accelerometers in sleep.

I'm not an IP attorney, tho I do employ them. Patents' purpose is to protect the inventor (assignee really) for a limited time in exchange for putting the invention later into the PUBLIC DOMAIN. 2nd, this is for personal use. 3rd it only supports the holder's position to litigate. People "violate" patents all the time and if the holder is aware and does not litigate, they lose (at least weaken) their rights. 4th, the patent has to be valid, non-obvious, etc.. 5th, it has to be still in effect. 6th, it must be filed prior to the "infringer's" discovery and development. A lab notebook, bound, numbered pages, signed and witnessed by page beats a patent if said "discovery" or "invention" pre-dates the patent filing.

This is one reason why our company does not patent, but does trade-secrets, religious adherence to lab books, while our customers do hold patents on how they use our technologies.

BTW:
Results of Search in US Patent Collection db for:
sleep AND accelerometer: 1717 patents.

LOTS of them out there.

Comment,

Max, from your post I can tell that you are not a public company where the money is. From my experience I can tell you that when going public, and making the money, lawyers would look to make sure that you have applied for patents on your products. The more patents a company holds the higher is its "good will".

Just try to infringe on GE, Apple, Resmed, etc.

avi123 wrote:Max, from your post I can tell that you are not a public company where the money is. From my experience I can tell you that when going public, and making the money, lawyers would look to make sure that you have applied for patents on your products. The more patents a company holds the higher is its "good will".

No, we are not public and have no need to be. Don't judge cash flow based on patents or being public. Here's some private companies: Cargill $110 Billion/yr, Koch Industries $100 Billion/yr, Mars $30 billion/yr, PricewaterhouseCoopers $29 Billion/yr, Bechtel $28 billion/yr... the list goes on endlessly. On the other hand, I've known plenty of patent laden companies, trying to lay intellectual property "mine fields" that have failed, completely. We have customers on every continent, well, except Antarctica, 10's of thousands of them, and as of this year, in the business for 20 years

Doing a quick search, I see we are cited in a minimum of 57 patents, probably many more, sometimes the core technology for the basis of the patent, sometimes as prior art, which also gives us a modicum of protection in those applications at no cost.

P.S. Not to brag, OK, maybe a little , I am "retired" management of a Fortune 50 (I used corporate jets, executive dining room, profit sharing, stock options...). I have a pension but no need to draw it. I resigned 20 years ago to start my company and I travel the world visiting customers, buy cars cash and enjoy life. /brag mode off, back to being humble (LOL!)

tschultz wrote:Good job on what you've done

Agreed...don't let the negative nellies get you down!!

tschultz wrote: Updating SleepyHead to handle this additional data is relatively easy and would allow for a single program to monitor our sleep.

Now yer talking... the beauty of open source and sharing ideas like using an off-the-shelf accell is how we move things forward quickly.

I apologize for getting off topic. My accelerometer should be here Thursday or so. I'm looking forward to playing with it, seeing what I can do, both in mechanics of sleep and what I can do with the data. Thanks for your sharing and guiding hand, BasementDwellingGeek.

MaxDarkside wrote:I apologize for getting off topic. My accelerometer should be here Thursday or so. I'm looking forward to playing with it, seeing what I can do, both in mechanics of sleep and what I can do with the data. Thanks for your sharing and guiding hand, BasementDwellingGeek.

Max, you would not be able to do anything with that $89 accels. You need an Electronic Engineer and a Computer Programmer to figure out how to output the electrical signals into a meaningful data, costing you a few grands. Why don't you ask tschults to tell you how to do it since he said: Updating SleepyHead to handle this additional data is relatively easy and would allow for a single program to monitor our sleep.

avi123 wrote:Max, you would not be able to do anything with that $89 accels. You need an Electronic Engineer and a Computer Programmer to figure out how to output the electrical signals into a meaningful data, costing you a few grands

Don't worry Avi, I have what is needed to make very good use of it, and quite quickly, probably within hours of getting it. I already have a program that handles all my pulse-ox, Zeo real-time brain waves, subjective judgments, ResMed data including events and durations, room conditions, how I feel, on and on, and it isn't Sleepyhead. It's our commercial process intelligence system.

See my post below.