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http://www.atherosclerosis-journal.com/ ... 3/abstract

CONCLUSION:
Early aggressive lipid lowering therapy significantly increases dense calcium volume in patients with AMI.

"Dense calcium volume" is not what you want in your arteries.

Janknitz wrote:http://www.atherosclerosis-journal.com/ ... 3/abstract

CONCLUSION:
Early aggressive lipid lowering therapy significantly increases dense calcium volume in patients with AMI.

"Dense calcium volume" is not what you want in your arteries.

This is another in a long list of side effects that big Pharma and the FDA try to keep hidden from the public. Follow the money folks.

BTW - - It is also known that taking Vitamin D supplements, especially with calcium, can lead to similar results. If taking Vitamin D, then you should also be taking Vitamin K2/MK7 (this is not the K1 that is in multivitamins). If you get your Vitamin D the way nature intended via sunshine, then K2 is not needed. However, it is nearly impossible to get enough Vitamin D via sunshine in most of the US during many months of the year (sun to low in the sky to be effective). I have seen K2 for sale at all online vitamin/supplement stores, but never in mainstream drugstores (maybe in health food stores?). Bottom line, if you are on statins, or just taking Vitamin D supplements, you need to research Vitamin K2 carefully. (Getting K2 via food is very difficult unless you live in Japan and like one of their favorite foods; natto.)

Been taking K2 (M4 and M7) for years... I think my bones must be titanium by now and hope the cardiac benefits are working too.

sptrout wrote:

Janknitz wrote:http://www.atherosclerosis-journal.com/ ... 3/abstract

CONCLUSION:
Early aggressive lipid lowering therapy significantly increases dense calcium volume in patients with AMI.

"Dense calcium volume" is not what you want in your arteries.

This is another in a long list of side effects that big Pharma and the FDA try to keep hidden from the public. Follow the money folks.

BTW - - It is also known that taking Vitamin D supplements, especially with calcium, can lead to similar results. If taking Vitamin D, then you should also be taking Vitamin K2/MK7 (this is not the K1 that is in multivitamins). If you get your Vitamin D the way nature intended via sunshine, then K2 is not needed. However, it is nearly impossible to get enough Vitamin D via sunshine in most of the US during many months of the year (sun to low in the sky to be effective). I have seen K2 for sale at all online vitamin/supplement stores, but never in mainstream drugstores (maybe in health food stores?). Bottom line, if you are on statins, or just taking Vitamin D supplements, you need to research Vitamin K2 carefully. (Getting K2 via food is very difficult unless you live in Japan and like one of their favorite foods; natto.)

Thanks for the reminder.

This could be totally coincidental but when I stopped taking a supplement that had K2, my calcium was elevated slightly outside normal limite. After starting up again and retaking the test, it was lowered within normal limits.

Last blood work, it was elevated again although still just barely within normal limits. Again, I had stopped taking it.

I take 2000 to 3000 of vitamin D as an FYI.

49er

I've noticed the calcium chewables at Costco contain vitamin K.
I wonder which kind?

I looked up the Costco product online and it just says that it contains 20 mcg of Vitamin K in the form of phylloquinone. This is K1, which is really not helpful at all. K1 is in all multivitamins and also in many foods, and it is not related to K2 in any fashion. Whatever organization determines the names of vitamins should have never named K2 as "K2". Very confusing and totally unrelated to K1. I have yet to find Vitamin K2 in any conventional products or stores. K2 just has not become "the thing" in mainstream medical circles yet. I recommend that you just do a "search" for K2 and read all the tons of information that is available.

49er wrote:

sptrout wrote:

Janknitz wrote:http://www.atherosclerosis-journal.com/ ... 3/abstract

CONCLUSION:
Early aggressive lipid lowering therapy significantly increases dense calcium volume in patients with AMI.

"Dense calcium volume" is not what you want in your arteries.

This is another in a long list of side effects that big Pharma and the FDA try to keep hidden from the public. Follow the money folks.

BTW - - It is also known that taking Vitamin D supplements, especially with calcium, can lead to similar results. If taking Vitamin D, then you should also be taking Vitamin K2/MK7 (this is not the K1 that is in multivitamins). If you get your Vitamin D the way nature intended via sunshine, then K2 is not needed. However, it is nearly impossible to get enough Vitamin D via sunshine in most of the US during many months of the year (sun to low in the sky to be effective). I have seen K2 for sale at all online vitamin/supplement stores, but never in mainstream drugstores (maybe in health food stores?). Bottom line, if you are on statins, or just taking Vitamin D supplements, you need to research Vitamin K2 carefully. (Getting K2 via food is very difficult unless you live in Japan and like one of their favorite foods; natto.)

Thanks for the reminder.


This could be totally coincidental but when I stopped taking a supplement that had K2, my calcium was elevated slightly outside normal limite. After starting up again and retaking the test, it was lowered within normal limits.

Last blood work, it was elevated again although still just barely within normal limits. Again, I had stopped taking it.

I take 2000 to 3000 of vitamin D as an FYI.

49er

I do not think so: The reason for taking K2 is that it "guides" the calcium out of the bloodstream into the bones. Without K2, or without sunshine provided Vitamin D, there is nothing to move the calcium out of the bloodstream and on into your bones and teeth. So it stays in your arteries and heart; sounds like a bad idea to me......

I take this D3,K2 supplement: http://www.amazon.com/Thorne-Research-V ... B0038NF8MG

It sounds expensive, but you only need a few drops per day, so it lasts quite a while. Vitamin A and DIETARY calcium (not supplemental) help, too. I eat my leafy greens, colorful veggies, and lots of egg yolks.

Another source of K2 is fermented foods--veggies and pastured dairy, but it's hard to get enough in the Western diet.

Janknitz wrote:I take this D3,K2 supplement: http://www.amazon.com/Thorne-Research-V ... B0038NF8MG

It sounds expensive, but you only need a few drops per day, so it lasts quite a while. Vitamin A and DIETARY calcium (not supplemental) help, too. I eat my leafy greens, colorful veggies, and lots of egg yolks.

Another source of K2 is fermented foods--veggies and pastured dairy, but it's hard to get enough in the Western diet.

Thanks, I will give that a shot. Much cheaper than what I have been taking.

49er

sptrout wrote:

49er wrote:

sptrout wrote:

Janknitz wrote:http://www.atherosclerosis-journal.com/ ... 3/abstract

CONCLUSION:
Early aggressive lipid lowering therapy significantly increases dense calcium volume in patients with AMI.

"Dense calcium volume" is not what you want in your arteries.

This is another in a long list of side effects that big Pharma and the FDA try to keep hidden from the public. Follow the money folks.

BTW - - It is also known that taking Vitamin D supplements, especially with calcium, can lead to similar results. If taking Vitamin D, then you should also be taking Vitamin K2/MK7 (this is not the K1 that is in multivitamins). If you get your Vitamin D the way nature intended via sunshine, then K2 is not needed. However, it is nearly impossible to get enough Vitamin D via sunshine in most of the US during many months of the year (sun to low in the sky to be effective). I have seen K2 for sale at all online vitamin/supplement stores, but never in mainstream drugstores (maybe in health food stores?). Bottom line, if you are on statins, or just taking Vitamin D supplements, you need to research Vitamin K2 carefully. (Getting K2 via food is very difficult unless you live in Japan and like one of their favorite foods; natto.)

Thanks for the reminder.


This could be totally coincidental but when I stopped taking a supplement that had K2, my calcium was elevated slightly outside normal limite. After starting up again and retaking the test, it was lowered within normal limits.

Last blood work, it was elevated again although still just barely within normal limits. Again, I had stopped taking it.

I take 2000 to 3000 of vitamin D as an FYI.

49er

I do not think so: The reason for taking K2 is that it "guides" the calcium out of the bloodstream into the bones. Without K2, or without sunshine provided Vitamin D, there is nothing to move the calcium out of the bloodstream and on into your bones and teeth. So it stays in your arteries and heart; sounds like a bad idea to me......

Hi,

I am confused about your position. Are you saying there is no correlation to what I wondered about or are you agreeing it is a bad idea to to take vitamin D without K2?

49er

"Hi,

I am confused about your position. Are you saying there is no correlation to what I wondered about or are you agreeing it is a bad idea to to take vitamin D without K2?

49er"

Based on all that I have read, yes, it is a bad idea to take a Vitamin D supplement without taking K2 also. My last comment was based on the post that I quoted that seemed to confirm that taking calcium without K2 would leave the calcium in the bloodstream and not be routed to the bones or teeth. That was the first time that I have seen anyone ever have blood tests done that backed-up that theory. BTW - - Dr. Mercola's website (and many others) contains excellent articles on this relatively new science. One of Mercola's articles contains an interview with a researcher from MIT that goes deep into this subject.

BTW - - There is much confusion now on how much K2 is needed. There no firm guidelines yet, but it seems to be in the mcg's per day not mg's per day. Science has not yet caught up with this Vitamin. Dr. Mercola does not even have a firm recommendation, but is leaning to proposing "x" mcg per day based on a person's weight. This all fairly new stuff, and guidelines are hard to come by. I know that one Vitamin D manufacturer that includes only 10 mcg in their 5,000 I.U. Vitamin D supplement because they believe that even at this low dose, taking it every day will allow the K2 levels to build up since K2 has a very long 1/2 life, so daily supplementation will cause a build up in your system.

Re: Vitamin K discussion.
For what seems to be a fairly good overview, see the wiki.
It does suggest that K2 can be converted from K1 in the gut of healthy individuals and dietary K1 is relatively plentiful in dark green veggies.

sptrout,

Thanks for clarifying and for verifying my thoughts about my calcium levels and how they have fluctuated depending on whether I was taking K2 or not.

Jay, I have also ready that K2 can be converted from K1 so thank you for that information. I will do some more reading.

49er

I came across a book today I'm thinking of buying (Kindle) because my library does not have it: Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox by Kate Rheaume-Bleue. It sounds a little like "this one thing will cure that ails, you, the world, and everything in it, but what I read on her blog is in line with all I have heard and read.

Then there's the controversy of what form of K2 to take. Some people say MK4 and some people say MK7, there doesn't seem to be any consensus. The Thorne D3/K2 is MK 4. (Supposedly Rheaume-Bleue recommends MK7). Since I also eat a fair amount of fermented foods (a dietary source of K2), I'm just hoping I have the bases covered until they sort it out.