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Re: OT: Medicare

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:42 am
by NateS
The "… Advantage" Plans are really great as long as you don't get sick. And if you knew how much of your taxpayers' money the government is paying out to the insurance companies for each person on Medicare Advantage, compared with what is spent for each person in traditional Medicare, you would no longer call these plans "free." Especially after you add to it what you will pay out of pocket, in the event of any serious illness with an "…Advantage" Plan!

If, for example, you learn that you have a serious illness and there is a high-quality first class medical center a few hours drive from your home, where all the best equipment and all the smartest and most qualified specialists are located, just get in your car and drive there if you have genuine Medicare and a Medicare Supplement Plan - It's your decision and your right and you're covered!

If you have an "…Advantage" Plan however, good luck. You will have to apply for your insurance company's permission and they will most likely tell you, when they get around to it, that no, that medical center and those physicians and specialists are "not in our network" and will give you the names of some doctors locally, doctors who, if they were really highly qualified and experienced in that speciality would be working at that nearby high-quality first class out-of-town medical center and not officed in your hometown!

The real-life experiences I referred to above are based upon both personal experience and the experiences of close friends and relatives with real-life medical developments, not on campfire stories. And my background in the insurance industry.

For a few reasons why "Medicare Advantage" is a scam both to its policyholders and to the taxpayer, you might want to take a look at:

The Trouble with Medicare Advantage

http://www.healthbeatblog.org/2008/07/t ... e-wit.html

It's a real eye-opener and the situation is even worse today than in 2008 when the article was written. An excerpt:
Even though these plans are marketed as nationwide and have no networks – this is false. They limit access to care and choice because significant numbers of doctors and hospitals have refused to accept the card, especially out-of-state. For example, many West Virginia retirees who moved out of state could get no doctor to accept the private MA plan.


MA private fee-for-service plans may offer additional benefits, such as gym memberships (the only major additional benefit in West Virginia), or hearing aids and eyeglass coverage, but they modify their benefits to cut corners in more important areas, such as limiting hospital days or charging higher co-pays for nursing homes than Medicare. Indeed, officials in West Virginia actually told a state legislative committee in November that “we know that … retirees who use more medical care will be worse off under this plan”.


PFFS plans more frequently deny claims in order to hold down costs.


The appeals processes are more difficult under the private plans. Retirees are no longer enrolled in traditional Medicare and must go through the company rather than Medicare’s transparent appeals process. Further, beneficiaries are often bounced between CMS and the insurance company seeking redress.


The subsidy to the private plans causes government employers, many of whom have secure, self-insured medical plans, to switch control of their medical decisions to these private companies, break up their efficient risk pools, and allow private companies to profit off our retirees.


The plans are not stable. They can and do pull out of markets, disrupting health care services and causing much anxiety among beneficiaries.
“There is a lack of quality and accountability. These private replacements for Medicare are exempt from basic quality reporting requirements.
Respectfully, Nate

Re: OT: Medicare

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:09 am
by ems
NateS wrote:Advantage Plans are really great as long as you don't get sick.
That's exactly it... if you don't need many of their services, you might even come out ahead. If, however, you go to a hospital, you'll find out quickly what they DON'T cover, and if they do cover it, what a small percentage they pay. At the end of the day the difference between what you paid them and what a supplement plan would have cost is minimal. I have researched this over and over... who wouldn't like to save a few dollars... but, in the long run, my health (and peace of mind knowing I can go to any doctor I choose) and saving a few hundred dollars isn't worth it.

Re: OT: Medicare

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:40 am
by LSAT
The medical advantage plans are different in different states. I have the AARP plan in WI. It's great! Before I chose this plan I was paying $250 month for my wife and for me...plus, we had to buy a Part D plan for $50 month. That's $600 per month besides each if us paying $97 month for part B. With the AARP plan our premium for both of us is 0...that's ZERO. We do pay $20 co-pay to see our doctor, a 20% co-pay for some procedures and a co-pay for drugs. Last year our out of pocket medical expenses were under $2000 compared to the previous years premiums of $7200. Obama wants to eliminate these plans so he can divert $$$ to his health plan.

Re: OT: Medicare

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:52 am
by ems
LSAT wrote:The medical advantage plans are different in different states. I have the AARP plan in WI. It's great! Before I chose this plan I was paying $250 month for my wife and for me...plus, we had to buy a Part D plan for $50 month. That's $600 per month besides each if us paying $97 month for part B. With the AARP plan our premium for both of us is 0...that's ZERO. We do pay $20 co-pay to see our doctor, a 20% co-pay for some procedures and a co-pay for drugs. Last year our out of pocket medical expenses were under $2000 compared to the previous years premiums of $7200. Obama wants to eliminate these plans so he can divert $$$ to his health plan.
Hmmm... I think you have the AARP, PPO Plan which happens to be one of the best MAPs. Unfortunately, it doesn't exist in my state. Why it's in one state and not another, I still can't figure out.

Re: OT: Medicare

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:54 am
by Madalot
I think it does depend on the state & the company.

I have been using a Medicare Advantage Plan since 2007 and have had numerous health scares, including emergency gallbladder surgery with 3 days hospital stay, not to mention my ongoing Muscular Dystrophy & resulting pulmonary problems.

I have had very few issues.

I investigated Medi-Gap plans before going with an Advantage -- the medi-gap plans were so expensive (over $500 per month) that I had no choice but to either go straight Medicare or sign up for an Advantage plan. The Advantage plans were the most cost effective way for me to go.

Re: OT: Medicare

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:28 am
by kempo
I was hoping I could learn something from this post from people who are already in the system. Right now I have insurance from my former employer where I retired. I pay $680 a month premium for me and my wife. There is a $20 co-pay with a $1200 deductable and the $20 co-pay does not go toward the deductable. I pay 10% of anything after the deductable has been meet providing it is within our network. The deductable was $500 last year with no $20 co-pay.

I am having surgery next Tuesday. Large hematoma on left hip (motorcycle accident last September). I told the doctor I hated dealing with insurance companies and he said "be glad you don't have to deal with medicare".

So I am just trying to see what others have done after reaching 65 yoa. I will be in your shoes within 4 years.

Thanks for the replies.

Re: OT: Medicare

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:50 am
by chunkyfrog
My MIL had medicare with the cheapest medigap possible--not too bad, except for the donut hole.

Re: OT: Medicare

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:08 am
by NateS
chunkyfrog wrote:My MIL had medicare with the cheapest medigap possible--not too bad, except for the donut hole.
Just out of curiosity, I just checked the Medicare.gov website to see what the current cost of adding Medigap (Not Advantage) to genuine Medicare is in my area.

The cost of Medicare Supplement C (Medigap) policies in my area ranges from: a low of $102 to a high of $236 per month.

I pay something in between that, plus AARP's Part D is about $30 month.

As you said Chunky, not bad at all when you compare the coverage and the lack of out-of-pocket and the complete choice of doctors and hospitals under genuine Medicare with Medigap to the "…Advantage" Plans.

Respectfully, Nate

May we all have and enjoy good health and happy and long lives, no matter what choices we have and choose from! Good results wished to all!

Re: OT: Medicare

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:45 pm
by NateS
No matter what your political beliefs, you will be astounded and sickened to read this article from today's New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/25/busin ... tml?src=se

Nate

Re: OT: Medicare

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:19 pm
by kempo
NateS wrote:No matter what your political beliefs, you will be astounded and sickened to read this article from today's New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/25/busin ... tml?src=se

Nate

Yea, a collection agency representing the hospital called yesterday and said to be prepare to pay $800 when I checked in for my surgery. That's the remainder of my yearly deductible. I guess some people would consider that harassment but I don't. When I have something done I expect to pay my part.

Re: OT: Medicare

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:24 pm
by chunkyfrog
It's always a good idea to anticipate your expenses; and set a little aside to cover it.
Those who can, but don't, are not wise.

Re: OT: Medicare

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:58 pm
by VVV
NateS wrote:No matter what your political beliefs, you will be astounded and sickened to read this article from today's New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/25/busin ... tml?src=se

Nate
What NYT will not tell you is what my sister-in-law's sister told us at Christmas. She sometimes works the desk in the ER and I paraphrase what she said about many, not all, of the people coming to the ER:
They are seeking free health care despite some indications they could easily afford a doctor or even health insurance. Many of them are using smartphones in the ER and smartphones are expensive initially and every month thereafter. Smartphones are also not necessary for a good life. The cars they arrive and leave in are late model cars with all the option packages and are well maintained.
I have heard anecdotes like this from several other people.

Our generosity is definitely being abused by many people. It will soon get to the point that we cannot help the truly needy because of all the leeches who take advantage of the system.

What is a hospital to do? Let their resources be stolen in broad daylight right underneath their noses? Or hire a tough collections agency in an attempt to collect from the immoral leeches?

I will let you decide. But be aware of all the programs in the U.S. that are on the verge of collapse not to mention our skyrocketing federal debt which is about to bring everything down.

Re: OT: Medicare

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:05 pm
by VVV
kempo wrote:So why is obama trying to extended a another year?

Have a look for yourself:
Monday, April 23, 2012

To: Friends & Supporters

From: Gary L. Bauer


COUNTDOWN TO VICTORY: 197 DAYS TO THE 2012 ELECTIONS


Manipulating Medicare

Barack Obama just got busted trying to manipulate Medicare for political purposes. Here is what's going on.

Beginning in 2013, ObamaCare eliminates Medicare Advantage -- a popular program that 12 million seniors rely on. But in order for Medicare Advantage to be eliminated next year, seniors would have to register for a new program this year -- about a month before the election.

Desperate to avoid having millions of seniors ticked off weeks before the election, the political hacks in the Obama Administration found a way to postpone the phase out of Medicare Advantage. Federal law allows the Department of Health and Human Services to spend money on "demonstration projects" without congressional approval so long as it is conducting a legitimate study intended to improve the effectiveness and quality of various health care programs.

It turns out that HHS has set aside $8 billion in "bonuses" for Medicare Advantage. Republicans have long complained that this spending has only one purpose -- to delay the demise of Medicare Advantage until 2014, but the media and the White House have ignored their complaints.

A report from the non-partisan Government Accountability Office strongly suggests the GOP complaints are valid. The Associated Press reports that government auditors say the bonus program should be cancelled. Consider this excerpt:


"GAO, the investigative agency of Congress, did not address GOP allegations that the bonuses are politically motivated. But, its report found the program highly unusual. It 'dwarfs' all other Medicare pilots undertaken in nearly 20 years, the GAO said. Most of the bonus money is going to plans that receive three to three-and-half stars on Medicare's five-star rating scale, the report said. …

"But GAO questioned whether the bonus program will achieve its goal of finding better incentives to promote quality. 'The design of the demonstration precludes a credible evaluation of its effectiveness in achieving (the administration's) stated research goal.'"

Of course it precludes a credible evaluation of effectiveness! HHS isn't studying anything. Remember -- the Medicare Advantage program is scheduled to be eliminated. So why are taxpayers providing billions of dollars in "bonuses" for average performance? As the AP notes: "Available through 2014, the bonuses will soften much of the initial impact of the Medicare Advantage cuts, acting like a temporary reprieve. This year, for example, the bonus program offset more than two-thirds of the cuts in the health care law."

Republicans should conduct a thorough investigation of this program and do everything they can -- even though the media will ignore much of it -- to expose this abuse of power. This is just one more example of the corruption of this administration. Obama's willingness to bend the rules and waste your hard-earned money for political purposes knows no limits. And it is another example of why conservatives are right to resist Obama's siren song of higher taxes, even on "millionaires and billionaires." The problem in Washington is not a lack of revenue. It is too much spending!

Re: OT: Medicare

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:30 pm
by NateS
VVV wrote: What NYT will not tell you is what my sister-in-law's sister told us at Christmas. She sometimes works the desk in the ER and I paraphrase what she said about many, not all, of the people coming to the ER:
They are seeking free health care despite some indications they could easily afford a doctor or even health insurance. Many of them are using smartphones in the ER and smartphones are expensive initially and every month thereafter. Smartphones are also not necessary for a good life. The cars they arrive and leave in are late model cars with all the option packages and are well maintained.
I have heard anecdotes like this from several other people.

Our generosity is definitely being abused by many people. It will soon get to the point that we cannot help the truly needy because of all the leeches who take advantage of the system.

What is a hospital to do? Let their resources be stolen in broad daylight right underneath their noses? Or hire a tough collections agency in an attempt to collect from the immoral leeches?
Yes, these are all good points. There is a lot of abuse within the system from "immoral leeches" and from insurance companies, and fraudulent medical clinics, etc.

But my point was that I believe it is immoral if not illegal and unethical to have outside collection people dressed in matching hospital staff uniforms without badges sitting in the admissions department and/or walking into patients' hospital rooms, violating the privacy of all of us, including you and me as well as the uninsured and/or deadbeats.

Would any of you approve of a non-hospital, collection agency person, dressed as hospital staff, looking over your chart to see what kind of health insurance you have and what your limits are and whether your condition is terminable or sustainable, and dunning you in your hospital bed for upfront payment before or after surgery because they claim your insurance company is slow to pay?

This is what I found outrageous! It would be extremely naive of anyone to assume that these strong-arm unethical tactics will be limited to "immoral leeches" and the uninsured!

If these people are wandering the halls of your hospital, I guarantee that you, with good insurance and great credit and honesty, will not be excluded from being "checked" by these boors!

Regards, Nate

Re: OT: Medicare

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:52 pm
by idamtnboy
kempo wrote:So I am just trying to see what others have done after reaching 65 yoa. I will be in your shoes within 4 years.

Thanks for the replies.
As a retired Federal employee I continued my previous health insurance the same as if I was still employed. I think that may an option unique to retired Feds. The downside is two fold. One, it costs me over $430/month for my wife and me, and if I ever drop it I cannot reinstate it. The latter is why I've chosen to keep it. The upside is I have no deductible nor copays, except for prescriptions, and no maximum lifetime limit. Generic drugs are $10 or less for a 3 month supply. Brand name are $70, or less, for 3 months, so those do add up somewhat. Since Medicare Part B is primary I have no problems getting medical service.

There are no simple answers for your question. The best thing to do is start asking around to get recommendations for a knowledgeable and helpful insurance agent and get their recommendation. But even then be careful. My brother went to a trusted agent who said the only hospital local to him was in-network for a particular policy. Turns out it isn't. Caused him grief in getting some med services paid for.

As I understand it, Medicare pays an insurance company a fixed amount per month to cover a Medicare retiree under an Advantage plan. Beyond that, how the coverage is managed, and a what cost, is entirely up to the insurance company. Hospice care is paid directly by Medicare, and is not part of any Advantage plan.

If two different insurance companies offer the same coverage in an MAP, one for $0 premium and the other at $100, that can only mean that one company is more/less efficient than the other, or makes more/less profit, or is in a higher/lower cost of operation area, or is in fact more restrictive/generous in some hidden fashion than the other.