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Pugsy wrote:

Papit wrote:Check out the "Papit Compression Clip" in my Avatar thumbnail photo.

Interesting idea....do you have a larger image available? I can just barely see what you are using and I can't seem to make the image any larger?

Sure thing, Pugsy. I'm going to try and send it now. First attempt at posting an image. Give me a few minutes. --Papit

NateS wrote:How do you all determine what the correct distance between the pillows is? Did you measure the space between your nostrils, the bridge of your nose, or what?

I didn't measure anything. I just let the pillows stay in their natural position with the mask off. In that state the pillows on my mask pretty much are right up against each other. All the floss does is keep them from spreading apart when I put the mask on.

sister wrote:Hi KSMike,
I just have to thank you sooooooooooo much for the tip...

Hi Sister,

You are very welcome and I'm glad it helped someone. I can't really take any credit for the idea, other than having remembered that I read it somewhere.

Papit, you have a very interesting idea there. I think we'd all like to see some more detailed pictures of it!

Pugsy wrote: Interesting idea....do you have a larger image available? I can just barely see what you are using and I can't seem to make the image any larger?

KSMike wrote:Papit, you have a very interesting idea there. I think we'd all like to see some more detailed pictures of it!

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Hope this photo went across ok (my first attempt at posting images here). It appears below if it worked. This is one of the clips I made. You will notice that the pillows are sort of "pushed" together, which shows graphically that there is a slight, but definite, amount of compression applied by the clip. (The amount of this compression can be adjusted as needed by experimenting with varying angles of the bent center of the clip.) When putting the mask on, I first need to spread the pillows apart just a little to fit on my nostrils. Holding them in place with one hand, I pull the mask head bands over-head and into position with my other hand. And I'm good to go. I can post some more photos if anybody has any specific angle or views they'd like to look at.
The tools I used include long-nose pliers, regular pliers, wire cutters and a file to make the ends smooth. Note that it did take some trial and error experimenting to get the best angle of bend in the clip at rest, so be patient as you do your handiwork. Hope this helps and can be of use, --papit

Thanks for posting that. I like the fact that you can keep the pillows together, or spread them apart, i.e., you have more complete control over just what the pillows do. It does look like the clip is susceptible to being pushed on if you sleep in any position other than on your back. Is that an issue?

KSMike wrote:Thanks for posting that. I like the fact that you can keep the pillows together, or spread them apart, i.e., you have more complete control over just what the pillows do. It does look like the clip is susceptible to being pushed on if you sleep in any position other than on your back. Is that an issue?

Yes, the clip is very light and flexible. It "gives" easily and provides an ever-so-slight snug (adjustable) that tends to hold a seal really well. And yes, as with the pillows themselves, the clip as well gets 'scrunched' if you roll your face and head completely over it and springs back into position when you roll off of it.
Here are a couple more pictures of an earlier clip I used. Notice that in this clip's example, I failed to make a complete "U"-turn on the ends (almost-closed-"C" ends would have been even better). As a result, once in awhile it came off at night. The clip I photographed and sent earlier in this thread shows how to make more secure ends, and I'm sure others on cpaptalk will be able to improve on how it's connected even more and, hopefully, post their enhancements.

The two images below show different angles and views plus one of Isis and Theo "guarding" my Autoset xPAP stuff in the upper left. Feel free to let me know if any other comments or thoughts, -- papit

[/quote]
How do you all determine what the correct distance between the pillows is? Did you measure the space between your nostrils, the bridge of your nose, or what?
Interested,
Nate[/quote]

Measurements weren't needed, Nate. I simply worked with the standard Swift FX pillows, in my case the Large size, that fit me best. I expect the clip would work with other brand pillows and cushions in the same way.

The whole idea is to improve upon the best fit you already get with the pillows you have by adding, if I may, a "papit compression clip" to 'restrain' them -- and give them a little more 'body' and an ever-so-slight-snugness to hold them in position in contact with your nose.

Note that it takes a little handiness with tools and some patience in doing some trial-and-error adjustments until you get it just right. But it certainly is doable. Have at it. Feel free (you and anybody else here) to post or PM me with any other questions or comments. --papit

Awesome ideas, thanks for the post's

Very interesting idea. Thank you for the close ups. I can see where this would add a bit of stabilization and tension without the need for tightening the top strap which results in piggy nose. I might just try it later if I can find suitable springy wire of some sort. Might be useful especially with the Bella Loops.

Pugsy wrote:Very interesting idea. Thank you for the close ups. I can see where this would add a bit of stabilization and tension without the need for tightening the top strap which results in piggy nose. I might just try it later if I can find suitable springy wire of some sort. Might be useful especially with the Bella Loops.

You might want to try one of those standard flat-wire bobby pins. I think I've seen them in two or three sizes. I imagine any of them will work just well so long as you can fashion the ends securely. The way I do the ends is to shape them into a closed "C-" or a "U"-turn with a twist, where they connect to the silicone flap next to each pillow. Have fun! --papit

by Papit on Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:26 am
I developed it by experimenting with different amounts of compression (spring action) provided by various wire materials.

Where did you get the wire? Do you know the thickness?
Thanks,

edm_msu wrote:

by Papit on Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:26 am
I developed it by experimenting with different amounts of compression (spring action) provided by various wire materials.

Where did you get the wire? Do you know the thickness?
Thanks,

I pried the wire from a sample of one of those 'seals' left for me by a cable television worker. They use them to securely close panel boxes on the street. You can ask a cable technician for one or two to play with. I think that bobby pins (the flat black wire type) also have enough memory for holding their springiness, which is why they can be repeatedly used. Sometimes ballpoint pens have paperclip gauge (approx) tough spring wire wrapped around their top part. I think you can pull that curled wire off and straight it out for this application. The spring action of the wire you use need not be very strong. Remember, you just want to compress or spread the pillows very slightly to optimize a fit that's almost right to begin with, or at least close. It took some patience and trial and error. The idea is to slightly customize the relative orientation of the two pillows with respect to each other to match the dimensions of your nostrils. Hope this helps.

Some people use a rubber band. I think Chunkyfrog experimented with that a while back. Others use a tied loop of dental floss. Same idea as the compression clip, except if you want to spread the pillows apart instead of compressing or pushing them slightly toward each other, they can't do that.

Papit,
Thanks for your helpful ideas.
Ed M.

(Response to request for identification of "compression clip" most promising springy-wire materials to use: See SleepyToo2's inquiry at bottom for reference.)

Re: Compression clip sources of supply?
Sure thing, SleepyToo2. I’ll fill you in on the more promising wire-like materials and attach pictures. As others ask the same question from time to time, I’ll also post it on the forum board.
The images below are all examples of:
a. Two clips I’ve made and continue to use with my Swift FX. The wires were pried from the plastic casings of security seals given me as samples by a cable TV technician when he did a service call. These type of seals are used on street-located cable television enclosure boxes. You can simply ask a cable technician for a couple of samples or locate a supplier.
b. Three are examples of different size bobby pins that I think would work. I have begun bending them into shape but haven’t yet cut them to size or curled their ends for secure connection to the Swift FX.
c. Two are examples of office supply binding clips, the wire handles of which look particularly promising.
d. Two others are examples of paper clips that may or may not have sufficient springiness retention, but might very well work out.
e. And finally, there is an example of ball point pen the lower portion of which is wrapped with particularly robust spring retention wire that may or may not have superior properties once properly straightened out and reshaped. The tougher material I found was harder to work with, but the end product just might be the best. Really don’t know just yet.



Sent at: Sun May 27, 2012 7:58 pm
by Papit

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Re: Compression clip source?

SleepyToo2 wrote:Subject: A 3" length of dental floss...

Papit wrote:Check out the "Papit Compression Clip" in my Avatar thumbnail photo. I've been using it for several weeks now with my Swift FX nasal pillows. I developed it by experimenting with different amounts of compression (spring action) provided by various wire materials. (Never tried it with Bobbie pins, but that might work.) The use of non-corrosive, springy wire, with properly formed ends for hooking onto, and retention with, the side flaps of (next to) the Swift FX pillows, gives a durable means by which to give the pillows a slight amount of (emphasis on very 'slight') compression from the outer side of both pillows toward the septum of one's nose. The compression can be adjusted or fine tuned by removing the clip from the FX and either spreading or compressing it to give it a wider or narrower gap end to end, and then reattaching. The clip helped me stabilize the leaks between the pillows and my nostrils in a way that allowed my head band and pillows positioning adjustments to hold with significantly more reliability. The result is the convenience of quicker, easier adjusting to obtain a good seal. It takes far fewer adjustments to get the fit just right for comfort and minimal leakage once the clip is in place.
The flexible springiness of this solution allows for some head movement, without the usual accompanying leakage, by being a bit 'forgiving' due to its spring action, but at the same time holding the pillows in place. While all rights are protected so far as Resmed, Phillips, et al are concerned, fellow cpaptalk members are invited to check out and make use of this pillows-leak-reduction method. Let me know how it works for you here or PM me. Many of you have helped me so much with good advice and reliable information. I've been wanting to give back and say thanks. I hope this will be of some benefit to you guys. Thanks.
What is your source for the compression clip? You say that you experimented with different amounts of compression, so I am assuming there are a variety of clips?
Thanks

Papit wrote:Check out the "Papit Compression Clip" in my Avatar thumbnail photo. I've been using it for several weeks now with my Swift FX nasal pillows. I developed it by experimenting with different amounts of compression (spring action) provided by various wire materials. (Never tried it with Bobbie pins, but that might work.) The use of non-corrosive, springy wire, with properly formed ends for hooking onto, and retention with, the side flaps of (next to) the Swift FX pillows, gives a durable means by which to give the pillows a slight amount of (emphasis on very 'slight') compression from the outer side of both pillows toward the septum of one's nose. The compression can be adjusted or fine tuned by removing the clip from the FX and either spreading or compressing it to give it a wider or narrower gap end to end, and then reattaching. The clip helped me stabilize the leaks between the pillows and my nostrils in a way that allowed my head band and pillows positioning adjustments to hold with significantly more reliability. The result is the convenience of quicker, easier adjusting to obtain a good seal. It takes far fewer adjustments to get the fit just right for comfort and minimal leakage once the clip is in place.
The flexible springiness of this solution allows for some head movement, without the usual accompanying leakage, by being a bit 'forgiving' due to its spring action, but at the same time holding the pillows in place. While all rights are protected so far as Resmed, Phillips, et al are concerned, fellow cpaptalk members are invited to check out and make use of this pillows-leak-reduction method. Let me know how it works for you here or PM me. Many of you have helped me so much with good advice and reliable information. I've been wanting to give back and say thanks. I hope this will be of some benefit to you guys. Thanks.

What is your source for the compression clip? You say that you experimented with different amounts of compression, so I am assuming there are a variety of clips?
Thanks[/quote]