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Posted: **Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:11 am**

deltadave wrote:

My biggest complaint is that Zeo is inaccurate in assessing poor sleep.

That says enough for me.

I kept a Zeo in my cart for a week when it was on sale and then decided against it.

Eventually I worked with the sleep doc to address my sleep hygiene and get some therapy for my pain issues. Now that the pain is treated fairly effective I can see that it was affecting my sleep much more than I could imagine. Sleep hygiene is a big help also. Zeo would not have told me any of this.

If I had bought the Zeo I might still be messing around with looking at data and have my problems unresolved.

I also did not want to wear another device on my head to bed.

Now let me add that I am appreciative of folks that buy Zeo and spend countless hours tinkering with it. All of this effort may some day help with the development of cheap, accurate products that can be used to actually find problems and identify solutions.

Posted: **Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:18 am**

Hi jnk,

Thanks for the response. My fault though as I was sorta going off-topic I guess and was actually asking about the SleepRate that the other poster mentioned. I did just get an email back from the SleepRate folks stating that it was only currently compatible with the I-phone/pad ect.. and not Android. Again just to confirm in case this confuses others, I am not talking about the ZEO - (I may still actually look into that though). Sorry for the confusion.

jnk wrote:
lazer wrote: . . . it's not clear which belt/receiver combos are actually supported on the Android platform . . .
Maybe this statement from the Zeo dudes will help:

zeo dudes wrote:Zeo Mobile has been developed for smart devices running Android 2.1 or higher. While Zeo Mobile should work with most Android devices, the following list has been specifically tested for compatibility: HTC Incredible, LG Optimus, Motorola Droid 2, Motorola DROID X, Samsung Galaxy S, Samsung Galaxy S2
http://www.myzeo.com/sleep/shop/zeo-sle ... obile.html (then click "SPECS" and look at the "Android" section.)

lazer wrote: . . . what is the one actually needed to use strictly for monitoring sleep stages? . . .
That is what Zeo does.

lazer wrote: . . . indicating you have to purchase some sort of ongoing access plans (subscriptions) in order to utilize the equipment data reports. Is this true? . . .
No. It is not.

For a Zeo Mobile, if you just (1) download the free Android app from Google Play to your smartphone and (2) then link your Zeo Mobile headband thingy to your smartphone through Bluetooth, you then should get the report on your phone that you can then save or forward in a number of formats. For example, you can send it to Google Drive as a PNG with a few easy flicks of your finger. No subscription to anything needed, if you want to run plays without being 'coached.'

I think this video (though it shows iOS instead of Android) explains it pretty well. (You don't HAVE to do the final step shown/described--getting coached online by uploading your data to MyZeo.com--if you don't want to.):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I_q4N9teq8

I have my issues with Zeo. I don't think it always does a great job of differentiating REM from Wake, for example. But ANY device that helps people learn about their own sleep--so that they can document the improvements that can come from simple lifestyle changes, for example--can't be all bad, as I see it.

I wonder when our hosts will start selling the Zeo Mobile, not just its bedside big brother? (Hint, hint.)

Posted: **Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:27 am**

The Choker wrote: . . . worked with the sleep doc . . .

Zeo does not claim to be a medical device, so anyone needing medical help with a medical problem should NOT look to Zeo for that. As the Zeo dudes themselves say repeatedly:

zeo dudes at the bottom of the zeo page wrote:Zeo Sleep Manager is neither a medical device nor a medical program and is not intended for the diagnosis or treatment of sleep disorders. If you suspect that you may have a sleep disorder, consult your physician.

That's not just a disclaimer; it is good advice.

Zeo is designed for entertainment, education, "coaching," and practical personal assessment of one's own sleep habits.

That said, it does measure and report (with, in my opinion, respectable accuracy for what it is) brain waves during time in bed. So it can be used in an off-off-off-label way for trending, much the way many of us use the proprietary reports of apneas and "hypopneas" from our home machines to track our breathing during sleep for trending. Or how we feel. Which is not a medical device, either.

I consider it more useful than your average home-sleep-test, which in my opinion is designed solely to keep people out of sleep labs/centers.

Posted: **Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:30 am**

lazer wrote: . . . asking about the SleepRate . . .

Oops. Sorry about that, lazer. I'll read more carefully next time. And thanks.

Posted: **Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:37 am**

The Choker wrote:Eventually I worked with the sleep doc to address my sleep hygiene and get some therapy for my pain issues. Now that the pain is treated fairly effective I can see that it was affecting my sleep much more than I could imagine. Sleep hygiene is a big help also. Zeo would not have told me any of this.

The Zeo helped me see how I cleaned up my sleep hygiene. As I made improvements, I could see my sleep structure de-fragment and become more "normal", as you can see in the chart below. The top one was typical about 6 months ago, the bottom one more typical of now. I find that helpful, myself.

Posted: **Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:21 pm**

I'm amazed that so many of you have had good experiences with the Zeo. I tried it out for a week and it did not appear to have any ability to tell when I was awake or asleep. I would check the results of a night where I knew I had woken up a few times (even once to go the bathroom) and there was no indication whatsoever in the data that I had been awake at all.

Posted: **Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:46 am**

fredmertz wrote:I'm amazed that so many of you have had good experiences with the Zeo. I tried it out for a week and it did not appear to have any ability to tell when I was awake or asleep. I would check the results of a night where I knew I had woken up a few times (even once to go the bathroom) and there was no indication whatsoever in the data that I had been awake at all.

Maybe you dreamed you went to the bathroom?

Posted: **Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:38 am**

fredmertz wrote:I'm amazed that so many of you have had good experiences with the Zeo. I tried it out for a week and it did not appear to have any ability to tell when I was awake or asleep. I would check the results of a night where I knew I had woken up a few times (even once to go the bathroom) and there was no indication whatsoever in the data that I had been awake at all.

Fred,
I've been using the bedside Zeo 4 weeks now, minus a couple nights I was out or sick. My observation is that it has some trouble discerning whether I'm in REM or awake, but manages to log anywhere from 1 to 7 awake events.. some of them quite long. My problem is I'm rarely getting even 10 min of Deep sleep. That was confirmed by the overnight PSG I had right at the beginning of my starting the Zeo in mid-May. So far, I feel the Zeo is doing a fairly good job of most of it.

I particularly like the online tools found under Your SLeep and New Tools. But so far I have yet to find any direct correlation between the variables. My # of awakes, REM, and awake time vary wildly because my sleep is very inconsistent.. so far. As far as comfort goes, with a chinstrap, SleepWeaver mask, Zeo headband and a Brux night guard, I'm kinda trussed up.
I was a little surprised to find out I needed to get some replacement headbands due to expected degradation of the metallic contacts. Hoping I can make them last more than the 90 days recommended changeout period.

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:32 am**

MaxDarkside wrote:The Zeo helped me see how I cleaned up my sleep hygiene.

Max,
Forgive me if you probably explained in more detail in other posts but what was it that you did to clean up your hygiene?
Like what were your habits that were poor and needed work and what did you do to remedy them?
Was part of it meds?
Just wondering what your issues were that you worked on and saw this improvement from.

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:01 am**

Pugsy wrote:
MaxDarkside wrote:The Zeo helped me see how I cleaned up my sleep hygiene.
Max,
Forgive me if you probably explained in more detail in other posts but what was it that you did to clean up your hygiene?
Like what were your habits that were poor and needed work and what did you do to remedy them?
Was part of it meds?
Just wondering what your issues were that you worked on and saw this improvement from.

Ya, well, it seems to be disassembling again but hey, with the Zeo I can see it as well as feel it.
Let me see.... ummm...

1. Get control of your sleep environment (temp, humidity, quietness, comfort)
2. I cut way back on Excedrin-like analgesics, pain meds in general, for my neuropathy aches. I was having rebound during sleep.
3. Cut caffeine off around 2 PM (I'm not sticking to this well, need to work on it more)
4. Increase exercise (I'm slacking a bit here too). It helps to be physically tired.
5. Put emotional stressors in little mental boxes, deal with them one at a time on my schedule. Lock 'em up at night.
6. Started using a mask liner for my Quattro FX. Leaks don't disturb me as much.
7. Go to bed at a consistent time, sleep until I wake (I seem to have started waking about every hr for the last 3-4 hrs of sleep though )
8. Review, think about your stats each morning 1st thing (ResMed, Zeo, accelerometer now)
9. I sleep on my tummy and prevent myself from rolling over using a man's neck tie. I erupt in events on my back and disturb my sleep.

That's what I can think of at the moment.

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:14 am**

Oh, and good nutrition and probably no alcohol in the evenings probably help. I do take 50 mg Benadryl and a cup of Tulsi tea at bedtime. With my "anti-roll-on-back" neck tie, my Zeo sleep scores have become very consistent. I would range from 50's to 90's, now I'm steady at about 70-71 with an occasional divot into the 60's.

Posted: **Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:52 pm**

Just to add my 2 cents to the Zeo evaluation:

I did some close comparisons between my breathing flow rate chart and the Zeo. I have pretty much learned the flow rate patterns where I am awake, in deep sleep or light sleep. The REM flow rate clues are difficult to read sometimes, other than seeing some breathing spikes amongst the stable areas.

Bottom line is I am impressed that Zeo really does a 70%-80% accurate job at identifying these sleep stages. I could do it with the flow rate, but the Zeo gives a nice format to viewing and managing the data trends. So, I plan to keep it around...

Tom

Posted: **Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:15 am**

I wear my Zeo OVER my elan headgear, which stabilizes it enough to compensate for its less than perfect fit.
Is it normal to get an hour or more of deep sleep and an hour and a half of REM? I know it's not 'average' for 60+ years.

Posted: **Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:09 pm**

Can a person use the zeo with a mirage quattro mask? I'm thinking not but maybe it works? I've finally got the leaks down to a very low managable level with my quattro and am not excited about switching masks...

Another question. In my sleep study, I had only 1 minute of REM sleep and 117 oxygen desaturations per hour during non-REM. Would I better off to buy an oximeter rather than a zeo?

Posted: **Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:24 pm**

Some people have managed to use a Zeo with a forehead brace.
My hubby wears his with his fitlife total face mask.
I haven't been successful with my Comfortgel full face mask, so I only wear my élan.
So, the answer is ,"some do, some don't".
Considering your desats, I'd go for the oximeter.

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