CPAPtalk.com

Paul56 wrote:Exercise promotes weight loss... given exercise builds muscle and muscle
burns more calories than fat.

It depends on your body. I think there maybe a gender issue there. Some people also feel hungry when exercising so while they do a good routine and maybe use up 250 calories, they then are compelled to eat - and eating 250 plus calories is very easy.

Janknitz wrote: My response is that he had a fairly healthy metabolism to begin with. And for people with healthy metabolisms, his approach can and should work very well.

For what it's worth, my metabolism was total trash, because (I'm told by my endocrinologist) of several decades of following the diets I'd been prescribed by experts. It was hell on wheels trying to mend it, and I'm not done yet (may never be).

Because of severe insulin resistance, a so-called “balanced approach” that includes any grains or more than very limited carbs is NOT ever going to work for me. For ME and my impaired metabolism, those foods are “inherently evil”. They may not be for YOU—you’re lucky that is so. But they are for me.

That in a nutshell was my central point - it is not, and never will be, one size fits all. That's why it can only be up to each of us to figure out what works for us given whatever hand we're dealt in metabolism, health, food sensitivities and physical ability. Experts usually have a one size fits all approach that they think works, but it may or may not work for any given individual. Nobody knows exactly how you feel after you drink an orange juice or eat a bread roll, or whether you can handle the low-carb lifestyle, or whether eating a particular kind of food will bother your psyche, except you. Nobody knows the entire package that is your body, mind and spirit, except you.

BTW, do you want me to post the studies that show that exercise is not such a big factor in weight loss? It’s very, very good for you, but if you think you lose weight because the exercise causes a calorie deficit, that theory does NOT prove to be so. Some types of exercise (resistance) do reduce insulin resistance in your muscles and can augment weight loss, but the effect is not as much as many would like to think. Gary Taubes writes persuasively on that.

I thought it had become pretty well accepted that the benefit of exercise is not in the calories burned. I probably wouldn't read the studies unless there's something really unique about them, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't post them, because others might like to see. Exercise was key for me, not because it burns calories, but because the endorphin rush kills cravings. Plus, if I don't move constantly, I freeze up and that hurts

So basically, I think you and I are saying the same thing - if a person tries to force a diet or exercise program or whatever that genuinely doesn't work for his/her particular self, it doesn't matter how well it suited somebody else - eventually, it will fail. Either he/she won't be able to keep it up, or will get sick, or get injured.

We each had to find what works for us, personally. Your mileage varies from mine, and we both finally found what seems to work for us. I think that's how it should be, and that was the whole point of what I wrote.

We each had to find what works for us, personally. Your mileage varies from mine, and we both finally found what seems to work for us. I think that's how it should be, and that was the whole point of what I wrote.

RG, we are in total agreement on that!

Hi Paul56!

roc@different_puter wrote: It flushes water from every cell in your body . . .

Paul56 wrote:Actually salt causes water retention . . .

And, on a cellular level, where does that water come from?

Via osmosis, sodium flushes water from every cell in your body, and into the blood stream.

That temporarily dehydrates the cells, and,over time, the increase in blood volume can result in systemic insult the arteries and other organs.

(in other words, it's bad stuff)

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Paul56 wrote:Reducing sodium intake to 1500 mg daily or less (even better) will have a positive effect on
weight loss and high blood pressure issues.

Why have any "added" intake of sodium at all?

Almost every other mammal on the planet doesn't do it.

You are partaking in a long-term experiment with your body, using a substance that is known to have deleterious effects.

I know this is anecdotal, but for me, the effect of dropping added salt from my diet was immediate and discernible.

Your results may vary.


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Another pull quote for Carpe Nocturnum T-shirts:

chunkyfrog wrote: Does this robe make me look rested?

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On the contrary, many animals seek salt. Ever hear about a salt lick for cows or birds that nest in particular cliffs because the need salt in their diets?

Janknitz wrote:Dr. Park has mentioned before the correlation between Leptin and sleep. Leptin is a hormone which helps to regulate food and energy intake in our bodies. When we are sleeped-deprived, and have high cortisol levels, leptin is off, and that can affect the insulin system as well. It's hard to lose weight when these hormones are not working properly.

So getting sleep apnea under control certainly helps with weight reduction. Moreover, if you are getting enough rest and oxygen to your body all night long, your overall health improves, you can be more active, which helps too.

Finally, I feel a lot better on CPAP. Less skeletal pain, which indicates to me less inflammation in my body. A diet doesn't have a fighting chance if you have all these other issues to contend with.

I can hear you about feeling hungry while sleep deprived. Staying up late, unable (fearful) to sleep, packed on 30 pounds for me in 4 months. Also, I lost a lot of muscle. Getting therapy has gained me back that muscle (neither gaining nor loosing weight) and someday, I hope will help me drop the weight. Walking or cycling every day is the key, I think. My blood pressure has dropped quit a bit since starting ASV therapy. But not enough yet that my doctor is willing to drop my BP meds.

Edit: I'm not a real salt craver. But I do like to season popcorn with potasium chloride salt. If I do eat salt, say a bag of doritos, I will weigh 5-6 pounds more instantly over night and it even feels like its harder to breath at night. I drink a couple liters of water a day along with my coffee and without salt, it goes through me. But with salt, it sticks.

Unfortunatly I've never met a Resse's peanut butter cup I didn't like.

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Mr Bill wrote: If I do eat salt . . . it even feels like its harder to breath at night.

I have the same reaction.

It feels like an elephant is kneeling on my chest.

Imho, salt can be very dangerous stuff

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Janknitz wrote:On the contrary, many animals seek salt. Ever hear about a salt lick for cows or birds that nest in particular cliffs because the need salt in their diets?

Hi Janknitz!

I think it's the oldest chestnut in the nutritional literature campfire.

What a few herbivores might occasionally seek doesn't make "added sodium" an essential daily supplement for the rest of life on earth.

A number of animals crave honey. Does that make it an essential supplement no life form can live without?

Of course not.

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Finally, we are primates, have been for millenia.

What primate currently seeks out (or gets) salt in the savannas or rain-forests?

Exactly none.

Yet they survive and thrive.

Try to convince an 800 pound silverback gorilla that he need to sprinkle salt on his banana.

Go ahead, I dare you.



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rocklin wrote:That temporarily dehydrates the cells, and,over time, the increase in blood volume can result in systemic insult the arteries and other organs.

(in other words, it's bad stuff)

I wouldn't call salt necessarily bad, but then again, I'm just someone who a cardiologist told to eat more of it (although I will admit that it tastes bad).  He wasn't good at explaining things, but that increase in blood volume is what he wanted to happen.  Just because he watched my blood pressure fall when he had me stand (and I had been sent to him for all those times I almost fainted when standing).

Hi tetragon.

tetragon wrote:I wouldn't call salt necessarily bad

I agree.

Salt (sodium) is utterly necessary to life, and is a natural part of food.

But when you decide that it's time to "step on the accelerator" so to speak, and just add the stuff in, you need to be prepared for the risks you incur.

tetragon wrote: He wasn't good at explaining things

Fatal flaw, imho.

Cardiologist don't do procedures, so if he can't explain his medical management to you, how do you judge if he is doing a good (or incompetent) job?

Kody wrote:Unfortunatly I've never met a Resse's peanut butter cup I didn't like.

Amen! Particulary the ones with white chocolate.

VVV wrote:

Paul56 wrote:All I know is what worked for me during a 6-month 80 lb weight loss many years ago...

- daily exercise that consisted only of walking

- reduction in the total amount of food consumed daily

- consuming a balanced diet with no emphasis on one food
over the other

Paul, How did CPAP fit in with that? Did you lose the weight before or after the commencement of CPAP?

At the time I did not have sleep apnea... or at least if I did it had not been diagnosed
and the symptoms were not obvious to me or my doc that I was seeing on a regular basis.

This weight loss was prior to my apnea diagnosis in 2008. Since my apnea diagnosis I've
not noticed a significant weight loss nor blood pressure change. I suspect my overnight blood
pressure has been reduced but I still need to be on meds.

A number of animals crave honey. Does that make it an essential supplement no life form can live without?

Honey is not an essential supplement without which no life form can live, but sodium is essential:

"Sodium helps regulate the amount of water in your cells and the overall fluid balance in the body. As blood volume increases, the kidneys increase the excretion of sodium, which reduces fluid levels.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/54345 ... z1jNbLSRA6

Whether you need to supplement the sodium in your body and naturally occurring in your diet is another thing entirely and dependent on many physiological factors. A lot of us enjoy the flavor enhancement of reasonable amounts of salt. If you find that your body can't tolerate any added salt, nobody is saying you MUST eat it. Small amounts of salt (certainly less than the SAD of processed foods provides) are not harmful unless there's an underlying medical issue.

Tell your gorilla there's no need to be rude.

roc@different_puter wrote:

tetragon wrote: He wasn't good at explaining things

Fatal flaw, imho.

Cardiologist don't do procedures, so if he can't explain his medical management to you, how do you judge if he is doing a good (or incompetent) job?

For him? I observed the reactions of the nurses at my doctor's office when I asked them for advice about the technical difficulties I encountered with a Holter. They were so impressed at how it fell off, and why, that they asked for where I was sent (it was put on immediately after an echo and stress test with no chance to shower or clean off with anything more than some dry paper towel). At this point I have no plans on going back to someone who's response to "Why should I eat more salt?" is "What would happen to you if I made you drink a few litres of water?".