As you note, the answer to what we need is highly individualized.cpaptex wrote:... I don't think that I would do anything beyond buying a Full Sine wave UPS that would run for 20-30 minutes and cover 99% of all power outages ...
JohnBFisher wrote: A caution about a generator (like the Honda listed), it does not produce a pure sine wave. It produces a modified sine wave.
Uhm, ya... I figured everyone would realize that.JohnBFisher wrote:Further, as with all generators, they are an outdoor only item (or at least an open garage).
These generators are quiet enough that street buskers with electrical musicalJohnBFisher wrote:Though it is listed as "super quiet", 53 to 59 dB is not all that quiet - at night! It would be similar to someone talking in a normal conversation outside your house at night. You would notice it. It's not too intrusive, granted. But it would be noticeable.
My humidifier operates off of AC power and a cable from there connects to the Bi Pap machine. The connector on the machine is a 3 prong device (it appears the small prong carries information from the machine to the humidifier to change settings) and as I mentioned the power brick states it outputs 26 volt power and the machine that it uses 24 volt.archangle wrote:Some of the M series humidifiers run directly off of 120VAC. There's a good chance these will be damaged by an AC inverter, an all-in one jumper/AC unit, a portable generator, or a UPS. All of these usually generate what are called MSW waveforms.
ResMed warns their AC powered S8 humidifiers will be damaged by MSW power. The blower unit is OK, only the humidifier heater is a problem. I have not seen a statement on MSW from Respironics.
Some M series humidifiers are AC powered, some are DC powered. Apparently, they changed somewhere in the middle of production of M series CPAPs.
Don't run it in an open garage either. Every time there's a widespread power outage, there are a few families who die because they ran their generator in an open garage attached to the house.Paul56 wrote:Uhm, ya... I figured everyone would realize that.JohnBFisher wrote:Further, as with all generators, they are an outdoor only item (or at least an open garage).
Finally something we CAN agree on. The it above refers to a generator. Which emits carbon monoxide and can be blown into the house even when the generator is placed outside but not far enuff away from the house.archangle wrote:Don't run it in an open garage either. Every time there's a widespread power outage, there are a few families who die because they ran their generator in an open garage attached to the house.
Too bad about your difficulties. You were nearly there. From your sig file, you are using an M Series xpap from respironics. Good news is that these xpaps will run directly from a 12 vdc battery. You didn't need to buy an inverter. What you do need, however, is a cable that goes from battery to your M Series. You can make one up but the simpler solution is to just buy one from CPAP.com.ProfessorEd wrote:I like many have been concerned about a backup CPAP backup power source for power failures and the ability to run my machine during camping.
My first attempt involved buying a large marine battery (marine was suggested because they are designed for slow drain applications like warning lights on sailboats, while auto batteries are designed for a short burst of power to start the engine). I spent about $200, plus buying a converter to convert to alternating current and a way to charge it, struggling with various connection problems. A friend helped me with a solution? that involved two wires, one on each terminal. I never was able to run the machine off of this set up.
Recently I bought a "Schumacher XP2260 Instant Portable Power Source" from Amazon for about $100 after noting that in the review one person mentioned using it when camping for her husband's CPAP machine. I have confirmed it runs my machine.
This device (and there are others) is multipurpose being basically a lead acid battery with jumper cables to start dead cars (which was what I was searching for). However, it also had a 400W inverter stated able to provided 120V of household power (and two standard sockets you could plug things into, such as my machine), an air compressor (for tires), power sockets for 12V accessory power (the type of connectors a car has) and a USB port, and a three diode built in light. It also has built in recharging equipment so you can plug it in at home and assorted gages etc. While no cheaper than single purpose solutions, the multiple uses may make it a better purchase.
This seemed like a worthwhile investment since it met both my need for jumps starting a car and for emergency and camping CPAP power, and could be used for other emergency purposes or camping when power was needed. Of course, the total package is bulky and heavy (11.8 lbs), but meeting several needs at once made it attractive, and a solution some may not have thought of. It could be carried in the car for emergency uses and brought inside only when needed for power failures.
The same brand offers portable power supply without built in jumper cables (which might be safer with children around) and no air compressor for only $85. It might be possible to buy separate jumper cables that would be inserted into the 12 volt outlet (which would be safer since children might not figure out a way to shock themselves with the jumper cables). There is a Duracell brand item with more power and a much higher price ($169.95).
One question I have is how to make use of the large investment in the marine battery which I never could make work and indeed presented a safety hazard (I got sparks trying to recharge it from this device due to an unnoticed short from the stripped wares touching.) This device may not have enough power to run my machine for more than one night (although its portability rising the possibility of taking it somewhere with power and recharging (i.e. work). Observation shows the recharging rate is slow (perhaps less than 10% over 8 hours), but a full day at the office would help, and the built in handle means carrying it to and from a car would be practical.
From comments I gather with the right connector you can recharge this from you car power sources (cigarettes lighter)while driving (i.e. useful on long car camping trip where you would recharge it while driving. Presumably this might also be done if one drove to work or somewhere during a power outage (I do not know how long this would take). From the warning in the instructions about no overcharging, it appears this just establishes a direct connection with your car's electrical system (and there is nothing to limit the current flow or prevent overcharging while when recharged from household current there are circuits to prevent this). I do not know how long this would take, and any advice from someone with better knowledge would be useful (for instance could you recharge it just by running the car for a short time or during a fairly short commute or shopping trip.
A table on Amazon for the Duracell line of similar products suggests recharging time of 2.5 hours to 4 hours using direct current, so that full recharging would be unlikely on short commutes, although partial recharging would be useful, and full recharging would appear possible on long trips. If willing to leave the car idling for hours in the driveway, full recharging wold appear possible. The required male to male connector appears to cost only $5.37, so I probably should buy it just to have the option.
There should be a safe way to connect the two batteries so they would act as one, although I am not quite sure what product is needed. Putting the two jumper cables on the marine battery terminals would seem to do this, although I am do not know whether there is something that would prevent this from working (blocking a reverse current flow somehow). Also, if I found a connector with a cigarette lighter type connector on one end, and two clamps that could connect to the marine battery, I believe both would function as one battery, giving me a larger power capacity (and I might be tempted to use one of the outlets for some other power need when the snow or other storms cut power to the house). I could get a connection using a Roadpro 12V Battery Clip-On and Cigarette Lighter Adapter ($5.60) and then a RoadPro RP-203EC 12V 12' Extension Cord with Cigarette Lighter Plug ($8.97) or the male to male connector mentioned above, but there should be a device with a cigarette type male plug on one end and clips for the battery terminal on the other, although I have not found it. I do not know if the above solution would be any better than just putting the jumper cables on the other battery.
I also have some concerns as to the status of the marine battery, which has sat unused for several years. I have been charging it by connecting it to the Instant Portable Power Source at night, and then recharging the power source (the manual says not to try to use the device while it is plugged into the wall sockets). I am not sure what shape it is in or how to determine that. My new device provides a voltage measure which appears to show a 13 Volt on the battery, suggesting it is still good.
I am presuming the Instant Portable Power Source output will power the Respironics Bipap for a longer period (I just tested it for a few seconds to confirm it did work). I notice the manual describes it as producing a nonsinusoidal wave form .
I have some safety concerns since I have children at home and 12 V batteries can give shocks or produce fire starting sparks. The device I bought has a switch to turn off power to the jumper cables, but the marine battery terminals are exposed (I have then covered with duct tape now to prevent problems).
That would be an open attached garage... and would be a poor constructionarchangle wrote:Don't run it in an open garage either. Every time there's a widespread power outage, there are a few families who die because they ran their generator in an open garage attached to the house.Paul56 wrote:Uhm, ya... I figured everyone would realize that.JohnBFisher wrote:Further, as with all generators, they are an outdoor only item (or at least an open garage).
Early production runs of M series used AC power for the humidifier. Later production runs use DC. I think more of them use AC than DC.Hose_Head wrote:
Too bad about your difficulties. You were nearly there. From your sig file, you are using an M Series xpap from respironics. Good news is that these xpaps will run directly from a 12 vdc battery.
Not true. A deep cycle marine battery will have similar longevity to a AGM or Gel cell battery. There are some marine "Dual purpose" or "Starting/Deep cycle" batteries that are somewhere between a true deep cycle and a car battery. There are even "marine starting" batteries, which is just a car battery with a phony "marine" term attached to it to make you think you're getting a higher quality battery.Hose_Head wrote:BTW, marine deep cycle batteries are not the best choice in this application. They are kind of a hybrid between a true deep cycle battery and a car battery - designed this way because they also are used for starting boat engines. A better battery type is a gel cell or glass mat battery designed for use in wheelchairs (can be bought at walmart, etc). Your marine battery will work, but it won't have the run-time or longevity of a true deep cycle battery.
As someone here once corrected me, you really need a good "float" charger, not just a "trickle" charger. Trickle chargers are less damaging long term than "dumb" chargers, but a true "float" charger is even better.Hose_Head wrote:For your battery, you need a proper deep-cycle battery charger. This is necessary to ensure that the battery is recharged properly so that it is not damaged by improper charging. A correctly sized charger will recharge the battery in just a few hours. Alternately, a trickle charger also will work (see John B Fisher's post, above); it will keep the battery charged for when you need it and over a period of a few days, will recharge a discharged battery.
I see you joined almost 5 years ago. Is this the machine you had then? If so, that's close to 5 years ago so you're due for a replacement. Rather than looking at expensive options to power your current machine from a battery why don't you push your doc for a prescription for a new machine? The money you save by not buying the $165 battery solution will go a long way toward the deductible on a new machine. And you'll have an adequate working machine for a backup.ProfessorEd wrote: I had some trouble getting this machine. After the doctor wrote a Auto BiPap prescription America's Health Care at Home delivered a machine I could see clearly was not the right one, although their set up representative did not seem to know what one should look like. I managed to send it back, and expected the new machine to be their latest model. After the delivery, I realized I had what was then called the "tank" model. At the time there was considerable discussion on this site about the relative merits of the older and new models, and I decided not to fight the DME over the issue, although it looked like they had again made a mistake and were unloading their older inventory on me. I notice a sticker saying BiFlex in green on the top, suggesting they had not modified the case when they added this feature to the innards. Close inspection of the case shows there appears to be a knockout piece which would permit a second connector, probably a DC one.
IF your BiPap looks like that it IS 24V. I think they call the connector a DIN plug. I forget whether it is a 3 or 4 pin DIN but is in fact 24 VDC. It converts 12V to 24V is maybe where you are getting confused.GumbyCT wrote:The M series IS 12V so if you are seeing 26V then you don't have an M.ProfessorEd wrote:Question I have is how to connect the battery units to the Respironics BiPap M model (tank version with a large power brick). I see the transformer unit has 26 volts written on it, so I gather a direct 12 V connection is not going to work.
Check for the model number on the bottom of your machine.
Does it look like this?
https://www.cpap.com/cpap-machine/respi ... -pro2.html
Good Luck Young ManProfessorEd wrote:Part #1012975 (list at $165) "RP-DC Power Adapter Kit for Respironics Bipap Machines" which has the right connector for my BiPap machine.