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Meowser wrote:I think its just the pillows.

I kinda thought just the pillows but didn't want to rain on your parade.

davelikesbeer wrote:Right now, I have "unused", and "used". Maybe I should devise a system the tracks how much time I get out of a pillow.

I just have used and unused. New are in a special bag in bedroom still sealed. Used in a little container in a drawer in bathroom. Open to air. No special system. We all know I am lazy sort. Washed, rinsed, left on little towel to air dry..then stored away in the drawer. I used to leave things out on the counter but if they get knocked off the dog thinks it is a chew toy.

Pugsy wrote: I just have used and unused. New are in a special bag in bedroom still sealed. Used in a little container in a drawer in bathroom. Open to air. No special system. We all know I am lazy sort. Washed, rinsed, left on little towel to air dry..then stored away in the drawer. I used to leave things out on the counter but if they get knocked off the dog thinks it is a chew toy.

My used ones are in a ziplock bag. I wonder if that will prevent them from being good again. Time for an experiment.

davelikesbeer wrote:My used ones are in a ziplock bag. I wonder if that will prevent them from being good again.

That is why I mentioned "open to air". With experiments sometimes the least little bit of a variable will make a difference. I don't know that it matters but since it is what I do, I mention it.

I can open a new pillow and hold it in one hand and hold one of my months old pillow in the other hand and I simply cannot feel any difference. One is no different from the other. Even the little cones.
Does facial oil absorb make any difference? I don't know. I have really rather dry skin and I don't use the Lansinoh any more. Simply no need. So does the silicone absorb facial oils or other oils? If so does it impact stability? I don't know that either. All I know is that I am lucky and my rather lax approach seems to work well for me.

Pugsy wrote: I can open a new pillow and hold it in one hand and hold one of my months old pillow in the other hand and I simply cannot feel any difference. One is no different from the other. Even the little cones.

Can you do the same test with a recently used pillow and feel a difference?

I'm not sure if the silicone rubber is porous or not. But if air drying helps, there has got to be a reason.

I'm with Dave and Meowser.. m DME refers to new mask as ..... pillows... They use the term "headgear" for the straps and fasteners.

davelikesbeer wrote:Can you do the same test with a recently used pillow and feel a difference?

Yep, just did a test for you.

Removed the pillow used last night which has been in place for 5 days this rotation. It is old and discolored. I do not remember when it was entered into the rotation but since it is the XS..I am thinking last December when I got the new mask setup..

I have 3 pillows in the rotation...1 XS and 2 Smalls. One of the smalls was opened new in May when dog made a chew toy out of one that fell off the counter.

So compared the just now removed used XS to a brand new unopened pillow. There is a difference. New is definitely a bit firmer. Not a huge difference but noticeable. I think if I closed my eyes I could tell which was new.

Compared one of my "used" Small pillows from the bathroom drawer container to the brand newly opened pillow.
Feels almost identical. Brand new might be a tiny bit "firmer" overall. Ever so slight difference. Not sure I could have told the difference if eyes closed and I didn't know which was what.

Compared the "used" Small from drawer to the just today removed XS used...and the Small is a bit firmer than the XS. again, not a lot but definitely a little bit firmer.

So it seems to me that the "used" pillows seem to firm up just a bit just by sitting. While not exactly same feeling as brand new... if I hadn't known which was what I probably couldn't have told the difference.

I can easily use both sizes..so it doesn't matter to me. I get great results with both. I often see 0 to minimal leak and if there is much of a leak it is usually from pillow movement when I toss and turn. I see maybe a quick spike upwards then it comes right back down to zero line.

I don't have a set rotation schedule. I don't often change the pillow with a weekly washing. I just do it when the mood hits me usually after about 3 to 4 weeks...so the pillows in the drawer get to sit in there for at least 3 to 4 weeks.

khintul wrote:FWIW, this is the worst leak graph I've ever had (Oh boy, a record)

If this is uncommon. Can you post a common report? Uncommon we don't get all upset over. Or at least I don't.
I figure sometimes the aliens come and mess with us so we don't have to count those nights.

It could be you are worrying about something that just happens for some unexplainable reason.
I thought you were seeing this all the time..

Perhaps during the night you moved and one of the pillows became dislodged. I once woke up to have a pillow stuck in my ear and my ear was getting the air. When I check my reports I saw it had been doing that for about 2 hours.
Those darn aliens stuck the pillow in my ear when they were done with me and didn't stick it in my ear.

What I am getting at is that sometimes stuff happens that we can't explain. Sometimes we don't always have a clear cut answer. If the Swift FX is too unstable...have you consider the Swift LT? Very similar mask but a little more stable. I used it until the Swift FX was released. Also...do you use any side cheek protectors or the barrel cozy. I added the barrel cozy and fleece side strap covers from Padacheeks and not only were they hugely more comfortable, the mask became more stable and less likely to move all over my face.
Something to think about since you want to make the nasal pillow mask work.

Pugsy wrote:

davelikesbeer wrote:Can you do the same test with a recently used pillow and feel a difference?

Yep, just did a test for you.

Thanks Pugsy!

If the theory that oils, or other liquids, are getting absorbed by the silicone is at least partially correct, then we should be able to measure it with a sensitive scale.

davelikesbeer wrote:then we should be able to measure it with a sensitive scale.

They have such things?

I am sure anything is better than me trying to be subjective holding them and squeezing them in my hands.

I have no idea how porous the silicone is and what, if any, impact facial oils and moisture may play over the long term.
I just figure it doesn't hurt to set seemingly used up pillows aside for a month and then revisit them to see if they will work again for a while. We have nothing to lose and possibly something to gain. I was excited to hear that someone else revisited an "old" pillow and found it worked for them. I am sure it won't help everyone but if it helps a few, then so much the better.

Pugsy wrote:

khintul wrote:FWIW, this is the worst leak graph I've ever had (Oh boy, a record)

If this is uncommon. Can you post a common report? Uncommon we don't get all upset over. Or at least I don't.
I figure sometimes the aliens come and mess with us so we don't have to count those nights.

It could be you are worrying about something that just happens for some unexplainable reason.
I thought you were seeing this all the time..

Perhaps during the night you moved and one of the pillows became dislodged. I once woke up to have a pillow stuck in my ear and my ear was getting the air. When I check my reports I saw it had been doing that for about 2 hours.
Those darn aliens stuck the pillow in my ear when they were done with me and didn't stick it in my ear.

What I am getting at is that sometimes stuff happens that we can't explain. Sometimes we don't always have a clear cut answer. If the Swift FX is too unstable...have you consider the Swift LT? Very similar mask but a little more stable. I used it until the Swift FX was released. Also...do you use any side cheek protectors or the barrel cozy. I added the barrel cozy and fleece side strap covers from Padacheeks and not only were they hugely more comfortable, the mask became more stable and less likely to move all over my face.
Something to think about since you want to make the nasal pillow mask work.

No, thank goodness, this is not an all the time thing!

I have now been looking at the Swift LT - it looks quite similar to the Opus 360 which I've also got, and like the stability of it. The only side cheek protectors I'm using are what was included with the FX; may give the Padacheeks a try. I'll keep gnawing away at this until I get something figured out - I guess what I'm really thinking is that perhaps it was better when I didn't have all this data to go over, and just went by how I felt.

Well, the image insertion gods are not being kind to me - I've tried 3 times now to put in typical night without success. I'll have to give up on it for now; I'm packing to leave town tomorrow.

You're right, there's not always an answer - thanks again!
Karon

Pugsy wrote:

davelikesbeer wrote:then we should be able to measure it with a sensitive scale.

They have such things?

I am sure anything is better than me trying to be subjective holding them and squeezing them in my hands.

I have no idea how porous the silicone is and what, if any, impact facial oils and moisture may play over the long term.
I just figure it doesn't hurt to set seemingly used up pillows aside for a month and then revisit them to see if they will work again for a while. We have nothing to lose and possibly something to gain. I was excited to hear that someone else revisited an "old" pillow and found it worked for them. I am sure it won't help everyone but if it helps a few, then so much the better.

I've ordered a milligram scale. It should arrive next week.

For my experiment, I will track the mass of three pillows. One used (the one I'm using now) exposed to air, the second being a new one I plan to start using for the duration of the experiment, and a third new pillow never used and stored in the ziplock back it came in to act as a control.

I've been using my current pillow over a month now. It seems a bit fussy at times, but in general, seems to be okay. I wash it with warm water and hand soap about once a week. I'll do the same with the replacement pillow.

Dave.

Okay, I've begun my pillow mass experiment.

I'm weighing three different pillows: a previously used pillow, a new and currently in use pillow, and a control that's never been used pillow. The weights are in grams.

Datetime Previous Current New
11/1/2011 19:08:00 8.873 8.851 8.334 Previous mask pre-wash measure
11/2/2011 21:23:00 8.776 8.857 8.334 Post wash & dry of previous.

After the wash (soft soap and warm water) and dry if the used pillow, it has lost 97mg. The currently used, and thus far unwashed pillow has gained 6mg. The control has remained the same.

So far, these are expected results. The washing removed some mass, presumed to be facial oils built up on the masks. One night of use of a new pillow has added 6mg to it (again, this is expected). And fortunately, the control has remained the same.

I won't wash the previous pillow any more and will wash the current pillow periodically (7 days or so).

Dave.

Interesting...

In the interest of hygiene and avoiding congestion and respiratory problems, any idea of how many bacteria there are in 6 mg of gunk?

Of course with a strong immune system, that should not be a problem.

OK, back to the test. Sorry for getting off topic.