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What about the diabetics, Ameriken?? Are they smarter or more reliable than we apeans?

Slinky wrote:What about the diabetics, Ameriken?? Are they smarter or more reliable than we apeans?

I have no idea about the specifics of diabetes and it's treatment, so I'm not sure what you're getting at?

How come we aren't considered intelligent enough and reliable enough to receive education and training in monitoring and tweaking our pressure needs? A 1 or 2 cm pressure change isn't going to kill us as fast as a small mistake in insulin dosage will put a diabetic into a coma or kill them.

As I've said before, my Sleep Doc is thrilled that I take an interest in my therapy. We go over my current report and long-term trends at my annual visit. From her attitude, I suspect I'm a minority of one among her patients.

My DME is online and couldn't care less what I do as long as I order supplies somewhat regularly.

If your Docs or DMEs are giving you a hassle, why haven't you found one that doesn't? Unless you just WANT something to be-otch about...

Slinky wrote:How come we aren't considered intelligent enough and reliable enough to receive education and training in monitoring and tweaking our pressure needs? A 1 or 2 cm pressure change isn't going to kill us as fast as a small mistake in insulin dosage will put a diabetic into a coma or kill them.

Why don't you ask your sleep doctor why he/she doesn't think we're intelligent enough? Because I'm not sure where you're coming from and I never insinuated that we aren't intelligent enough.

Or is there a specific thing I said in my post that you disagree with? Because it seems like you're reading way to much into it. I never said anything about the intelligence of sleep apneans vs diabetics. In fact, I said nothing at all about diabetes.

Well, that is obviously how the majority of the sleep profession and sleep doctors consider us. I certainly don't mean that this is the way YOU see us.

The movies I'd choose to see again---I could count on one hand--and have fingers left over.

Slinky wrote:Well, that is obviously how the majority of the sleep profession and sleep doctors consider us. I certainly don't mean that this is the way YOU see us.

Yes, however you're asking me 'why' they look at us differently than diabetics and I have no clue why. But now that you bring it up, IMO I don't know if they actually consciously consider us 'less intelligent'. As I said, I think they don't want us messing with our therapy because of the few idiots who spoil it for the rest of us with their dumb mistakes and lawsuits. Not just for apnea, but most illnesses. If I were a doctor, I'd be apprehensive as well about allowing people to do their own thing. Most people are ok, but there are those few who will ruin it. But even if they did think we're less intelligent, who cares?

However, let me add that considering how badly my brain was functioning, I don't think I was quite with it and could easily make errors and poor decisions (and I did) due to decreased cognitive function from less sleep and less O2. And having read many posts here, it seems that even with therapy there are many people who are still not cognitively at the top of their game so to speak, so if there is a bias against apneatics, I could easily understand why a doctor wouldn't trust me, because I didn't even trust me. I do also believe that most doctors overall do have a God complex and think only they hold the keys to our health and the less we know, the better it is for us.

Having said that, what they think really doesn't bother me one bit and I'll make my own changes if I feel I have a good reason to because in the end, it's my therapy and my life and I'll do what I want regardless of what they think.

Geez, what about the bunch of us who are both diabetic AND apneatic???

xena

ameriken wrote:... I do also believe that most doctors overall do have a God complex and think only they hold the keys to our health and the less we know, the better it is for us.

Having said that, what they think really doesn't bother me one bit and I'll make my own changes if I feel I have a good reason to because in the end, it's my therapy and my life and I'll do what I want regardless of what they think.

NOW you are talking, Ameriken!!!

I will concede that I used to cringe when I would see instructions how to change PAP settings posted clearly in this forum. If I felt that the poster was sensible I would PM them w/those instructions but for the longest time I just couldn't bring myself to post them here in the open forum. There were some newbies I got the impression had a new toy and just couldn't wait to play w/it just for the sake of knowing how to do so w/no real reason to do so.

Slinky wrote:

ameriken wrote:... I do also believe that most doctors overall do have a God complex and think only they hold the keys to our health and the less we know, the better it is for us.

Having said that, what they think really doesn't bother me one bit and I'll make my own changes if I feel I have a good reason to because in the end, it's my therapy and my life and I'll do what I want regardless of what they think.

NOW you are talking, Ameriken!!!

I will concede that I used to cringe when I would see instructions how to change PAP settings posted clearly in this forum. If I felt that the poster was sensible I would PM them w/those instructions but for the longest time I just couldn't bring myself to post them here in the open forum. There were some newbies I got the impression had a new toy and just couldn't wait to play w/it just for the sake of knowing how to do so w/no real reason to do so.

I think that while this malady is still relatively new and unknown to most doctors, we won't be getting 'permission' to make these changes. But as time goes on and it becomes more and more commonplace, and as doctors realize we're not going to keel over because we increased our pressure form 8 to 9, then the medical community may relax more and give us more freedom to make the changes to our machine.

Until then, it's going to be as much of a no-no as 'running with scissors' was when we were kids.

chunkyfrog wrote:I could count on one hand--and have fingers left over.

How many fingers do frogs have? Or hands, for that matter...

Boy, there's been quite a discussion since I last posted here! I won't go back, especially since I don't think we have any fundamental differences (even though some posts reflect a rather fundamentalist's approach ), but I will try to distill the issue a bit further: so, some say that people have the right to know/control, and that such right should be automatically granted to all patients, regardless of their specific needs/wants/abilities/etc.? Well, last I checked, health care (from doctors and hospitals to insurance companies) was a for-profit business. Their postulate for doctor-patient relationship is: "you came for help, here's what I offer, take it or leave it." Should medicine be different? Should it be, instead, some sort of obligation, where the patient has the right to demand something outside of the business relationship? There is already the Hippocratic Oath, which is not a very popular concept in the US, but doctors everywhere abide by some norms and standards. However, those seem to refer mostly to "technical" and ethical aspects of the quality of the services rendered, rather than to the purpose of the medical profession. I said I'd be happy to be given some right, even in exchange for me promising something; some of you want that to be declared an inalienable right - is that feasible? Are we hoping to achieve something, or are we simply stating idealistic wishes? To boil it down a little further: who should decide how medicine operates: the medical business (with their interests in mind) or the general public? Do you see what I'm getting at?
McSleepy

Well, the way I see it, they have the knowledge and expertise, and that is what I am paying them for. HOWEVER, "I" am the one who endures the benefits - or consequences - of any decisions "we" make or test, treatment or therapy "we" agree on. "I" am paying "them" to inform me to the fullest extent possible to allow me to make an educated decision.

I'm NOT saying force full information on someone who is totally disinterested and prefers the doctor to make all the decisions for them. What I "am" saying is that when I or others like me ask to be fully informed we had damn well better be or that doctor is HISTORY. Doctors, at least in our area, are not hard to come by. And, I"m willing to travel to a good one if necessary.

Remember when people used to use paragraphs?