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Alshain wrote:I've been having this problem for the last 2 weeks all of the sudden as well. The difference is I'm not consciously doing it. Also, I'm not simply knocking it off, so I don't think a strap will work. I wake up and find my mask neatly put away where in belongs when it's not in use and the tubing coiled up next to the machine and then wonder "How the hell did that happen?" It's like sleep-walking... except it's "sleep-putting-your-mask-away-and-turning-off-your-CPAP".

Alshain, are you taking any sleeping meds like Ambien, Lunesta, or Sonata? Because this kind of behavior CAN be one of the more alarming side effects of using those kinds of medications.

And it could be that you really ARE sleep walking, which in its extremes can be regarded as another sleep disorder. I'd report this behavior to your sleep doctor ASAP.

robysue wrote:

Alshain wrote:I've been having this problem for the last 2 weeks all of the sudden as well. The difference is I'm not consciously doing it. Also, I'm not simply knocking it off, so I don't think a strap will work. I wake up and find my mask neatly put away where in belongs when it's not in use and the tubing coiled up next to the machine and then wonder "How the hell did that happen?" It's like sleep-walking... except it's "sleep-putting-your-mask-away-and-turning-off-your-CPAP".

Alshain, are you taking any sleeping meds like Ambien, Lunesta, or Sonata? Because this kind of behavior CAN be one of the more alarming side effects of using those kinds of medications.

And it could be that you really ARE sleep walking, which in its extremes can be regarded as another sleep disorder. I'd report this behavior to your sleep doctor ASAP.

Nope, no sleeping pills. I was taking Cymbalta for a while as a experimental drug for other purposes (prescribed experiment of course) but I'm not anymore. Don't sleep walkers usually wake up to find unexplained cuts and bruises? I have 2 cats always under foot and my apt is pretty small. I set my security alarm every night so opening the doors would sound an alarm. I'd be completely shocked if someone told me I was sleepwalking.

Alshain wrote:

robysue wrote:

Alshain wrote:I've been having this problem for the last 2 weeks all of the sudden as well. The difference is I'm not consciously doing it. Also, I'm not simply knocking it off, so I don't think a strap will work. I wake up and find my mask neatly put away where in belongs when it's not in use and the tubing coiled up next to the machine and then wonder "How the hell did that happen?" It's like sleep-walking... except it's "sleep-putting-your-mask-away-and-turning-off-your-CPAP".

Alshain, are you taking any sleeping meds like Ambien, Lunesta, or Sonata? Because this kind of behavior CAN be one of the more alarming side effects of using those kinds of medications.

And it could be that you really ARE sleep walking, which in its extremes can be regarded as another sleep disorder. I'd report this behavior to your sleep doctor ASAP.

Nope, no sleeping pills. I was taking Cymbalta for a while as a experimental drug for other purposes (prescribed experiment of course) but I'm not anymore. Don't sleep walkers usually wake up to find unexplained cuts and bruises? I have 2 cats always under foot and my apt is pretty small. I set my security alarm every night so opening the doors would sound an alarm. I'd be completely shocked if someone told me I was sleepwalking.

Sleepwalking does NOT require you to go far from the bedroom or leave your house or apartment. Presumably you can walk around the inside of your apartment without tripping any of the alarms? Or at least your bedroom and bathroom? As for unexplained cuts and bruises---well only if you keep running into things because you don't know where they are. But it seems like if the sleepwalking type behavior is confined to an area you know well enough to navigate in the dark anyway, then running into things is much less likely.

Because somebody took the time and effort to carefully stow all your CPAP gear correctly---the way you want it done. And it ain't the cats. Can you stow all this stuff easily without getting out of bed? And even if you can, it's a pretty complex behavior for doing in your sleep---as opposed to taking the mask off and dropping it on the floor while leaving the machine running and the hose attached to the machine and mask.

Me? I'd err on the side of caution and report this behavior to my sleep doc if I were doing it.

There is a lot to be said for will power. That is what makes each of us compliant. However, there are things that can help us develop and maintain the will power we need.

The first and most important thing is comfort. Analyze every aspect of comfort involved... nose bridge irritated? nasal passages dried out or inflamed? cheeks chafed by straps? Hair being pulled by straps? getting tangled up in hose? I discovered that part of my rip-off-the-mask problem was that my nasal passages dried out and became swollen and inflamed, making it hard to breathe through my nose. A big part of my problem was discomfort. I cranked up the humidifier and was able to sleep much longer without freaking out and ripping it off.

The second thing is training your unconscious mind. Hose crusher made a wonderful suggestion about simply starting your day after the rip-off-the-mask event. Another alternative is to get out of bed and go sit quietly in another part of the house, dim light, not doing anything stimulating (maybe listening to some soothing music very quietly) and wait until you have calmed down and relaxed and become sleepy again. Then, go back and PUT ON THE MASK. It is a matter of telling your whole self, conscious, unconscious, body and all, that sleep will not occur with out a mask. Every time you lay down to sleep, PUT ON THE MASK. I went from sleeping one hour at a time to now sleeping 5 or 6 hours at a time, mask on the whole time. (I have insomnia, hence only 6 hours, if no insomnia, I would be sleeping the whole night through.)

The third part of it is pure will power. You must be determined to achieve complete compliance. As long as you are ok with partial compliance, you're going to have lots of trouble. I speak from bitter experience. As long as I thought Oh I'll wear it this long and then sleep without it, I progressed very slowly with much distress and struggle on top of not achieving the goal of complete compliance. It was really horrible. Things improved a lot once I got my comfort taken care of and made the commitment to NEVER sleep without my mask. I sometimes take it off in my sleep, but the minute I wake up and find the mask off, I put it right back on. It's a matter of always getting right back up on the horse.

Keep putting that mask back on, and you'll achieve your goal of compliance.

Alshain wrote:I've been having this problem for the last 2 weeks all of the sudden as well. The difference is I'm not consciously doing it. Also, I'm not simply knocking it off, so I don't think a strap will work. I wake up and find my mask neatly put away where in belongs when it's not in use and the tubing coiled up next to the machine and then wonder "How the hell did that happen?" It's like sleep-walking... except it's "sleep-putting-your-mask-away-and-turning-off-your-CPAP".

It's not uncommon to wake up, really be awake, do something, go back to sleep, and not remember doing it after sleeping for a few hours. If you're in your "just woke up" stupor, decide "*#$@# it, I'm taking this #$#$@ mask off" and then go back to sleep, you may or may not remember it the next morning.

Of course, sleepwalking does happen, too.

robysue wrote:

Alshain wrote:

robysue wrote:

Alshain wrote:I've been having this problem for the last 2 weeks all of the sudden as well. The difference is I'm not consciously doing it. Also, I'm not simply knocking it off, so I don't think a strap will work. I wake up and find my mask neatly put away where in belongs when it's not in use and the tubing coiled up next to the machine and then wonder "How the hell did that happen?" It's like sleep-walking... except it's "sleep-putting-your-mask-away-and-turning-off-your-CPAP".

Alshain, are you taking any sleeping meds like Ambien, Lunesta, or Sonata? Because this kind of behavior CAN be one of the more alarming side effects of using those kinds of medications.

And it could be that you really ARE sleep walking, which in its extremes can be regarded as another sleep disorder. I'd report this behavior to your sleep doctor ASAP.

Nope, no sleeping pills. I was taking Cymbalta for a while as a experimental drug for other purposes (prescribed experiment of course) but I'm not anymore. Don't sleep walkers usually wake up to find unexplained cuts and bruises? I have 2 cats always under foot and my apt is pretty small. I set my security alarm every night so opening the doors would sound an alarm. I'd be completely shocked if someone told me I was sleepwalking.

Sleepwalking does NOT require you to go far from the bedroom or leave your house or apartment. Presumably you can walk around the inside of your apartment without tripping any of the alarms? Or at least your bedroom and bathroom? As for unexplained cuts and bruises---well only if you keep running into things because you don't know where they are. But it seems like if the sleepwalking type behavior is confined to an area you know well enough to navigate in the dark anyway, then running into things is much less likely.

Because somebody took the time and effort to carefully stow all your CPAP gear correctly---the way you want it done. And it ain't the cats. Can you stow all this stuff easily without getting out of bed? And even if you can, it's a pretty complex behavior for doing in your sleep---as opposed to taking the mask off and dropping it on the floor while leaving the machine running and the hose attached to the machine and mask.

Me? I'd err on the side of caution and report this behavior to my sleep doc if I were doing it.

Well I probably will talk to him about it next time I see him. I don't want to completely hijack the OP's thread but I usually find the mask sitting on the nightstand with the hose coiled and machine turned (it isn't taken apart) and that's it. This just started recently too. I really don't think I'm sleepwalking though, if I left my bedroom my cats would trip me up (or at least be in my bedroom at night, they don't get to sleep with me because they are dieting and they will annoy me awake when they think it's breakfast time). As for the bedroom, it's tiny, and I'm kind messy so there is always new stuff in the way on the floor.

Folks,

That first sentence of the OPs post, "I am fully concious and aware when I take it off, but I can't keep myself from doing this." is critically important here: His problem is convincing his CONSCIOUS mind that he needs to not take the mask off at 4:00 or 4:30. Although I have no evidence to support it, my pet theory is that the OP is going to bed around midnight and that he's consciously waking up to take the mask off once he's got his compliance hours done and then returning to sleep. He may not even be aware that he's fallen into the pattern of thinking, "Just get the four hours of compliance dealt with and then worry about the rest of the night." But if that's what's going through his conscious mind as he's trying to fall asleep, it's not a surprise that he wakes himself up so that his conscious mind can get on doing what it said it needed to do just before falling asleep. In other words, I think he's making the same mistake snuginarug admits to making:

snuginarug wrote:... part of it is pure will power. You must be determined to achieve complete compliance. As long as you are ok with partial compliance, you're going to have lots of trouble. I speak from bitter experience. As long as I thought Oh I'll wear it this long and then sleep without it, I progressed very slowly with much distress and struggle on top of not achieving the goal of complete compliance. It was really horrible.

And I think that things will improve for the OP only after he makes the same commitment snug did:

snuginarug wrote: Things improved a lot once I got my comfort taken care of and made the commitment to NEVER sleep without my mask. I sometimes take it off in my sleep, but the minute I wake up and find the mask off, I put it right back on. It's a matter of always getting right back up on the horse.

Keep putting that mask back on, and you'll achieve your goal of compliance.

This commitment to never consciously fall asleep sans mask is the key to fixing the OP's problem of consciously removing his mask every morning between 4:00 and 4:30.

Furthermore, a big part of will power is doing the honest analysis of your own behavior and figuring out what you need in order to adjust the behavior in the way you want to. So I would say that the effort that goes into analyzing every aspect of comfort in order to address all those niggling, irritating, and horrible comfort issues is a MAJOR component of will power being directly applied to the decision to use the CPAP every single night all night long.

And so the OP also needs to make a conscious commitment to doing the real work on fixing whatever comfort issues he currently has with the mask. That means he needs the will power to carefully and honestly analyze his physical reaction to the mask in order to identify the comfort issues that are leading to the his consciously taking the mask off. And I'm not sure he's really begun doing this work: He said,

kevster324 wrote:I am fully concious and aware when I take it off, but I can't keep myself from doing this. It usually occurs around 4:00-4:30 AM. I had nasal pillows until last month when I switch to a Quattro FX FFM. I thought that maybe switching masks would solve the problem, but no such luck.

So he's made one attempt to solve the problem that didn't work. And he's apparently done very little additional analysis of why he is consciously taking off his mask each morning at 4:00am. Until kevster324 can tell himself and us:

• "I consciously take the mask off at 4:00 or 4:30 because of x, y, or z."

he will be grasping at straws that others provide him in hopes that one of them will be the magic bullet that will "solve" his problem. If he's very lucky one or more of those ideas may prove useful in fixing comfort problems, but as long as he is willing to consciously make the decision to fall asleep without the mask at 4:00 in the morning, he's likely to continue to wake up at that time and consciously take the mask off at that time and then return to sleep.

Before we go riding off in all directions, maybe we should hear the OP speak for himself. He has not replied yet. Maybe he has been intimidated by all the answers he's gotten, maybe he's been too tired to log onto his computer, maybe he is vacationing in Papua New Guinea. If he never comes back, I would be very sad because, like everyone here, I want to help people achieve compliance. But when (if) he does come back he can address all these remarks, suggestions, questions, etc etc. Not saying a person can get too much feedback, the more the better. But letting him respond would be helpful.

robysue wrote:So he's made one attempt to solve the problem that didn't work. And he's apparently done very little additional analysis of why he is consciously taking off his mask each morning at 4:00am.

I expect that, once he's read the responses here, he will have new ideas that have not occurred to him on his own. That's what we're here for, to give new people ideas and suggestions of things they might not have thought of themselves. I know that I spent a long time banging my head against the wall of compliance until someone here explained to me the importance of comfort, and helped me go through each possible issue one by one, something that never would have occurred to me on my own.

So before we get on his case, maybe we should let him digest our responses and then see what he does.

Robysue needs a kick up the bloody arse if s/he seriously thinks people who take their masks off in their sleep do it deliberately! My husband does it every night, yet fights or shouts at me in his sleep when I try to put it on him. He never has any recollection of this.
I welcome genuine answers and advice.

amif, your husband and the original poster are not the same. the original poster said he is consciously taking off the mask. if your husband is not, that is a different story entirely. making the comment that robysue needs a kick in the behind is not productive. robysue is a very well respected poster on this and other forums and always tries hard to help people. why don't you or your husband post his issues to see if someone can help, or perhaps you could videotape him and bring it to the doctor?

A couple things.

One, the original post is from 2011. So, the person now replying and complaining about the responses is responding to older posts. Perhaps it would be more useful to add equipment to the profile and ask for some real help.

I am one who takes my mask off sometimes during the night. Sometimes I remember doing it and why. Sometime, I am completely mystified. it really depends on the situation. The original poster stated that they remembered taking it off each night, so they knew they were doing it. And they never explained why they were doing it. It really helps to solve the reason. When *I* remove my mask, it is usually due to drooling, which is uncomfortable, and starts messing up the seal. I tend to be really sleepy, and fail to sit up and actually clean off my mask. I will often fall asleep, and then, if i get up to the use the bathroom, I will wipe out the mask and put it back on.

Other times, I really don't know what happened. Just last Friday night, I woke up feeling like I was unable to breathe well. I took off my mask and was sitting there. The next thing I remember, my sister was yelling at me to put my mask back on (I was snoring). I checked the data later, and it says the machine turned off a full 10 minutes before I remember looking at the clock. So, I may have hit the button, or it turned off, which then caused my trouble breathing. But I was too sleepy to figure it out and fell asleep without solving the problem. Once my sister woke me up, I made a trip to the bathroom, put the mask back on and slept another 5 hours straight.

I don't usually have another person in the room, so if I fall asleep without my mask, there is nobody to help me correct the problem. I just happened to be sharing a hotel room that night, so the problem was corrected quickly.

No matter what the issue, someone has to be a jerk about it. I take my mask off several times a night. I'm usually aware and don't always put it back on. Will power has nothing to do with it. I feel like I'm suffocating and I don't like it. This takes getting used to.

My brother has severe sleep apnea. He just started CPAP and takes his mask off within first hour of sleep. At his sleep study he was extremely active in bed, violent arm and leg movements, flogging around, and yelling in his sleep. Sleep center said it was the worst they had ever seen. The violent nights continued at home after starting CPAP. He hasn't been able to sleep more than 1-2 hours on CPAP. After I questioned him, I discovered they had given him a nasal mask and it was way too big for him.. He was having violent episodes because he couldn't breathe. His airway was blocked due to mouth breathing. I told him he needed a FF mask and should get a prescription for ambien for first month or two.

He wondered if he should tie his mask on (humorously suggesting a child-sized jock strap). I told that would not fix the problem of not being able to breathe with nasal mask.

The new ResMed Airfit F10 is a great mask. Very light weight and minimalist design. I suggested he go get one before his 30 days are up.

Why didn't sleep study discover his asphyxiation when mouth breathing? Having the correct mask that fits well is key to successful CPAP Treatment? Why do DMEs assume that obese men need size large mask?

Why do DMEs assume that obese men need size large mask?

For the same reasons that sleep professionals decided that thin women can't have sleep apnea. In other words, they stereotype patients and don't look at them as each individual situation on its own merits.

Glad your brother's problem was solved.

Fritz,
Sometimes that suffocating feeling has more to do with the pressure settings than the mask. If you would register and post your equipment we could help you download software and discover what is happening at night to give you a suffocating feeling.