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Re: low carb diet?

Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 4:10 pm
by SleepingUgly
LoQ wrote:
SleepingUgly wrote:But is increasing fat a good thing? Someone wrote above that he didn't lose weight into he started eating more FAT on his low carb diet. Is it necessary to eat a lot of fat while on a low carb diet in order to lose weight?
You are not overweight. (Good job!) I don't think you need to worry about how much fat you eat.
Well, I don't want to GAIN weight (wouldn't mind losing a little more) but I also don't want to deprive myself of more fat if it would help me lose weight (or not gain). I may have missed something, but so far no one has indicated (other than the person who said it originally) that eating MORE fat is necessary to lose weight. I need to find who wrote that originally and inquire directly, perhaps.

Re: low carb diet?

Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 4:59 pm
by idamtnboy
Slartybartfast wrote:Correction: Here's what Gary Taubes says about saturated fats on his blog. This book might be my next read:

http://www.garytaubes.com/writing/artic ... g-fat-lie/
Interesting article. Here's the link to the full version in the NY Times:http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magaz ... tml?src=pm

Here is one interesting quote in the article, purposely chosen for its controversy initiating value!
If you work out the numbers, you come to the surreal conclusion that you can eat lard straight from the can and conceivably reduce your risk of heart disease.
This one describes the dilemma quite well.
''Sometimes we wish it would go away because nobody knows how to deal with it,'' said Robert Silverman, an N.I.H. researcher, at a 1987 N.I.H. conference. ''High protein levels can be bad for the kidneys. High fat is bad for your heart. Now Reaven is saying not to eat high carbohydrates. We have to eat something.''

Re: low carb diet?

Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 5:39 pm
by So Well
My wife and I have both lost weight and maintain "youthful figures" by keeping the carbs down and eating plenty of protein and fat.

Wifey just had mixed nuts, cheese, and a banana for lunch. I fussed at her that she should have only eaten half the banana because a whole is too much fructose (carbs). I had deli turkey and Swiss cheese, on a small slice of whole wheat bread plus a small apple. This wasn't enough fat so I stole a few of her mixed nuts.



Slartybartfast wrote:Correction: Here's what Gary Taubes says about saturated fats on his blog. This book might be my next read:

http://www.garytaubes.com/writing/artic ... g-fat-lie/
What I would like to see a discussion about in this thread is the proper balance of omega 3/omega 6 in the fats we eat. My understanding is incomplete but there is something about our diets changed for the worse because we get too much omega 6 and not enough omega 3 from fat in our foods. This has something to do with more fat in the diet now coming from "the fields" ( corn oil, soybean oil, rapeseed oil) and less fat coming from animals, fish, eggs, nuts, and olives as examples. Don't take those items as accurate and if someone knows the factual details please post them.

Dank-Kerle, gute Diskussion.

Re: low carb diet?

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 2:20 pm
by JeffH
A most excellent article about fat vs. carbs for existence.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/a-metabo ... more-21418

JeffH

Re: low carb diet?

Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 3:13 am
by Jade
Someone else's 2 cents, via one of my email subscriptions:

The new issue of *Consumer Reports* includes an article: "Rating the
diets; Jenny Craig edges out six others."

Here are some excerpts:

[begin excerpts]

Our latest diet Ratings update (available to subscribers) has produced a
new winner: Jenny Craig, a commercial program that combines personal
phone or in-person counseling with a portion-controlled regimen of pre-
made foods supplemented with homemade side dishes

What gave it the edge over the other big names we assessed--stalwarts
such as Atkins, Ornish, and Weight Watchers--was a 332-person, two-year
study of the program published in the Oct. 27, 2010, Journal of the
American Medical Association.

Ninety-two percent of participants stuck with the Jenny Craig program
for two years--a remarkable level of adherence--and at the end of that
time weighed an average of about 8 percent less than when they started.

When we last rated diets four years ago, the winner was the Volumetrics
diet, based on eating high-bulk, low-calorie food.

In a sense, it's still a winner: The Volumetrics brand is now part of
Jenny Craig, which is why we're not rating it separately this time.

<snip>

So if you need to lose weight, should you immediately sign up for Jenny
Craig? It's obviously worth considering, but if you don't like the idea
of eating pre-packaged meals, it might not be for you.

The diet that works is the one you can stay on, says Kathleen Melanson,
Ph.D., associate professor of nutrition and food sciences at the
University of Rhode Island and director of its Energy Balance Laboratory.

"If you're forcing yourself on a diet you hate, it's going to be really
hard to stick with long-term," she says.

And these days, choices abound.

You can follow the Ornish diet, a near-vegan plan with very little fat,
or its diametric opposite, the Atkins diet, which allows almost two-
thirds of your calories from fat.

Or you can settle somewhere in between with the moderate regimens
offered by Weight Watchers and Jenny Craig.

<snip>

To lose weight, you have to burn up more calories than you take in, no
matter what kind of diet you're on.

"The first law of thermodynamics still applies," says Dean Ornish, M.D.

But emerging evidence shows that some forms of calories are more filling
than others.

Protein is the most satiating nutrient, followed by high-fiber grains,
fruits, and vegetables.

<snip>

Evidence is accumulating that refined carbohydrates promote weight gain
and type 2 diabetes through their effects on blood sugar and insulin.

"If you have insulin resistance, your insulin may go up to 10 or 20
times normal in order to control your blood sugar after you eat sugar or
carbs," says Eric C. Westman, M.D., an associate professor of medicine
at Duke University who co-wrote the newest version of the Atkins diet.

"But the insulin also tells your body to make and store fat. When you
restrict carbs, your insulin goes down and you can burn your body fat,
so you eat fewer calories and aren't as hungry."

Isn't it dangerous to eat so much fat?

That's still a subject of vigorous scientific debate, but it's clear
that fat is not the all-round villain we've been taught it is.

Several epidemiology studies have found that saturated fat doesn't seem
to increase people's risk of cardiovascular disease or stroke.

Other studies suggest that you might be even better off if you replace
saturated fat with unsaturated fat instead of with certain carbs, the
ones that turn to blood sugar quickly after you eat them, such as white
bread and potatoes.

A nutrition researcher, Frank B. Hu, M.D., of the Harvard School of
Public Health, recently wrote that he believes "refined carbohydrates
are likely to cause even greater metabolic damage than saturated fat in
a predominantly sedentary and overweight population."

Moreover, clinical studies have found that an Atkins or Atkins-like diet
not only doesn't increase heart-disease risk factors but also actually
reduces them as much as or more than low-fat, higher-carb diets that
produce equivalent weight loss.

On the other hand, the Ornish Program for Reversing Heart Disease, which
includes a low-fat diet along with exercise, stress management, and
group support, has proven so effective that Medicare now covers it for
cardiac patients.

While scientists sort this out, what's a low-carb dieter to do? Michael
L. Dansinger, M.D., assistant professor of medicine at Tufts University
and a longtime weight-loss researcher, suggests this middle ground: "a
low-ish carbohydrate diet that's high in vegetables and lean protein,
including dairy; moderate in fruit; with nonsaturated fat from sources
such as olive oil, nuts, avocados, and fish."

[end excerpts]

The article is online -- but requires a subscription -- at:
<http://bit.ly/KenPopeConsumerReportsDietRatings>

Ken Pope

Re: low carb diet?

Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 6:51 am
by roster
Ninety-two percent of participants stuck with the Jenny Craig program
for two years--a remarkable level of adherence--and at the end of that
time weighed an average of about 8 percent less than when they started.
8 percent.

If your BMI is 40 that gets it down to 37; if 35 down to 32.

I would come to the opposite conclusion of Consumer Reports. The Jenny Craig program is not worth the time, money, or effort. What think ye?

Re: low carb diet?

Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 8:04 am
by Lizistired
roster wrote:
Ninety-two percent of participants stuck with the Jenny Craig program
for two years--a remarkable level of adherence--and at the end of that
time weighed an average of about 8 percent less than when they started.
8 percent.

If your BMI is 40 that gets it down to 37; if 35 down to 32.

I would come to the opposite conclusion of Consumer Reports. The Jenny Craig program is not worth the time, money, or effort. What think ye?
I read somewhere that Jenny Craig funded that study. Go figure.

Re: low carb diet?

Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 8:52 am
by idamtnboy
roster wrote:8 percent.

If your BMI is 40 that gets it down to 37; if 35 down to 32.

I would come to the opposite conclusion of Consumer Reports. The Jenny Craig program is not worth the time, money, or effort. What think ye?
Depends on how much overweight you are when you start. If I could have dropped to 184 when I was at 200 I'd have been quite happy, but now that I'm at 210 8% doesn't look so great. Considering the cost and time of the JC diet and if 8% is all I dropped, I agree, the pocket book value is questionable.

Re: low carb diet?

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:56 am
by Slartybartfast
Here's an interesting video Gary Taubes references in his book, Why We Get Fat. The presenter is a 25 year vegetarian researcher at Stanford who admits that of all the current diets his group tested, to his amazement, the Atkins low-carb/high fat diet was the best one in all categories tested. This supports the claims Dr. Atkins made in his book, and those that Taubes carefully explains in his very readable book.

It's well worth the hour or so it'll take to view the video.

Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eREuZEdMAVo

Re: low carb diet?

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:49 pm
by SleepingUgly
I wonder what Gary Taubes would say about the new documentary coming out, "Forks Over Knives"... They make claims that there is evidence it's a meat and dairy based diet that leads to heart problems, cancer, etc. and that the answer is a plant, fruit, and grain-based diet.

Re: low carb diet?

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 1:10 pm
by Slartybartfast
That's conventional thinking. They have been telling us that since the 1960s, when "you are what you eat" thinking became popular. It's what the long-haired 25-year vegetarian hippy-looking researcher in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eREuZEdMAVo, which Taubes references in his book, refers to as the "Government Diet." The video is well worth a look and it has a surprising conclusion.

What Atkins and Taubes have worked to demonstrate is that, since there has been a tremendous rise in the incidence of obesity, diabetes, heart disease and cancer that has occurred since the low-fat/high carb food pyramid appeared, perhaps the establishment types got it wrong. His take is that insulin is the master regulator of blood sugar and fat metabolism. Insulin responds directly to blood glucose level, which responds directly to carbohydrate intake. He explains that when you eat carbs your blood sugar rises, which causes insulin to rise, which ties up the sugar in glycerol, which then takes circulating lipids and stores them away as triglycerides in fat cells, which cannot transform their stored triglycerides into free fatty acids for release into the blood stream again as long as insulin remains high. Which means so long as you're eating carbohydrates. But when one stops eating carbs, then blood sugar falls, insulin falls, and the fat storage mechanism turns off, allowing fat to be used directly by your cells as fuel.

The foregoing is why, long ago, sweet and starchy carbohydrate-laden foods were what everyone referred to as "fattening." Somehow, since the 1960s, those "fattening" foods became healthy foods (as if by magic!), and we're encouraged to consume most of our dietary calories in the form of carbs. Could it be more than coincidental that, since that change, obesity, heart disease, diabetes and cancer rates have skyrocketed? Atkins thought so, and Taubes documents it.

But there's more to it than that. There's insulin resistance and metabolic syndrome, and the liver gets involved in fat regulation. But it appears that nobody disagrees that insulin is the master regulating hormone whose level has to be watched.

It seems our bodies operate much like flex-fuel cars do. The preferred fuel is carbohydrates because they can quickly be turned into glucose. But, absent glucose, fat can be metabolized. And when fat reserves are depleted, protein can be broken down into ketones, and the ketones can be burned. The latter is not necessarily a good thing.

The video explains the sequence, but Taubes' book explains it far better with lots of documentation.

Re: low carb diet?

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:24 pm
by Jade
While catching up here, I was reminded of this article I came across recently. Thought some might find it of interest/use.

From http://www.primalbody-primalmind.com/blog/?p=1117:

Life Extension News
04-28-11
“Researchers from Mount Sinai School of Medicine have for the first time determined that the ketogenic diet, a specialized high-fat, low carbohydrate diet, may reverse impaired kidney function in people with Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes. They also identified a previously unreported panel of genes associated with diabetes-related kidney failure, whose expression was reversed by the diet. The findings were published in the current issue of PLoS ONE…

Re: low carb diet?

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:54 pm
by Slartybartfast
Thanks for that. I bookmarked it. Ketosis isn't anything to be afraid of, at least for the non-diabetic, and a surprising number of people are beginning to say that mild ketosis is perhaps not an uncommon, nor a harmful physiological state for Homo sapiens. Ketoacidosis, though, is something else, and I think there is a bit of a knee-jerk reaction when ketosis is mentioned because of the similarity of the terms.

“Our study is the first to show that a dietary intervention alone is enough to reverse this serious complication of diabetes,” said Dr. Mobbs. That's just what Robert Lustig says near the end of his video Sugar the Bitter Truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6 ... re=related Same thing Dr. Richard Bernstein has been saying for some time, too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyOI9bk3VZc

Re: low carb diet?

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:44 pm
by Janknitz
After much success low carbing 10 years ago( when my corrected metabolism experienced an unusual side effect--pregnancy!) I fell off the wagon and have slowly put on a truly horrifying amount of weight ( I maintained a good weight for about 2 years after pregnancy). So as of four days ago I'm back on the wagon and already feeling it ( back pain that has plagued me in the past year is suddenly and mysteriously gone but I don't think I could have lost any significant weight yet.

When I was doing this before fat fasts were beginning to be popular jump starts to low carbing ( for the first week you eat NOTHING but fat--and, no, I did not try it). Now there's a big "low carb high fat movement going on. I listened to this very interesting podcast last night http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/the- ... data/10939 and I can see the logic after listening to the very informed guest.

All I can say is wow! We were sure sold a bill of goods with the low fat approach. It's interesting that as an obese person people look askance at me ingesting any fat (comments in the office today while I was enjoying a perfect avocado about how "fattening" the are). Sigh . . .

Last time I lost 40 pounds and felt great having all the heavy whipping cream and butter I wanted--revenge is better than sugar!

Re: low carb diet?

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:07 am
by Slartybartfast
Janknitz wrote:[snip]
All I can say is wow! We were sure sold a bill of goods with the low fat approach. It's interesting that as an obese person people look askance at me ingesting any fat (comments in the office today while I was enjoying a perfect avocado about how "fattening" the are). Sigh . . .

Last time I lost 40 pounds and felt great having all the heavy whipping cream and butter I wanted--revenge is better than sugar!
Agreed. The "you are what you eat" approach is simplistic. After reading Good Calories Bad Calories, I had an "aha!" moment. I distinctly recall my grandmother and my great aunt and an elderly neighbor lady saying "that's fattening," referring to sweets and starchy foods. They never said that about meat. Yet since the 1960s we've been so bombarded by the message that all dietary fats are bad and that we should be grazers, not predators, "love animals, don't eat them," and suchlike I didn't even think to question whether it's true. Was it Marx who said if you repeat a lie often enough, for long enough, the people will come to believe it?

It's hard to overcome that sort of conditioning.

Now after cutting all the digestable carbs out of my diet that I can, I have found that when a coworker brings donuts or birthday cake into work, I don't have any problem declining it. It just doesn't appeal to me. The craving is gone, and I'm not hungry all the time. And after lunch, I don't get sleepy, and if I miss a meal, it's not like someone's going to have to pick me up off the floor. Carb addiction is awful.

[Edit: No, the Big Lie was in Hitler's Mein Kampf, later used by Goebbels and others]