CPAPtalk.com

Here's a cliff's notes version:

The Paleolithic Diet At A Glance
(includes an interesting historical timeline of our "knowledge" about nutrition)

http://www.primalbody-primalmind.com/blog/?p=1151

Guest wrote: How can ketosis be a problem for diabetics?

There are a number of serious medical conditions that can cause ketosis. If the ketosis is bad enough it affects the pH and can be harmful or even fatal.

Diabetes can cause dangerous levels of ketosis. Even if the ketosis doesn't reach dangerous levels in a diabetic, it may indicate the diabetes treatment is not working well. Because of this, diabetics pay a lot of attention to ketone levels.

That doesn't mean that reasonable levels of ketosis in someone who is dieting is harmful. Some medical experts believe that it is always a bad thing, some don't.

Ketosis usually indicates something unusual is going on in the body. It may or may not be severe enough to be harmful. For most of us, if the unusual thing causing ketosis is weight loss, that's a good thing.

If you stop and think about it, weight loss is always fatal if it is continued long enough.

Guest wrote:The process of breaking down fat results in ketosis. How else can you lose weight other than breaking down stored fat into intermediate forms, known as ketone bodies? Doesn't everyone who loses weight experience some ketosis from time to time?

Your body can break down fat at a certain rate without making ketone bodies. What's controversial is whether exceeding this rate and producing ketones is necessarily unhealthy. I'll take that risk myself, but those who are concerned aren't necessarily idiots.

SleepingUgly wrote:OK, so here is an example: The Fat free milk in our refrigerator has 12g of carbs and the 2% has 12g of carbs. Which to consume?

BTW, I am at best lowering my carbs, but I am not doing NO carbs--even on my lowest carb days, I still eat vegetables. So given that I am eating carbs, what kind of fats SHOULD I consume?

Throw that stuff out and use half and half or heavy cream, and then only sparingly. Both are higher in fats. Don't drink milk. It is for baby cows.

JeffH

Guest wrote:How can ketosis be a problem for diabetics?

My mistake. I meant non-diabetics, of course.

People with IDDM do have to worry about ketoacidosis, which is different from ketosis and is a dangerous condition.


People without IDDM are not at risk for ketoacidosis, and the other condition, ketosis, is not harmful to them. It is, in fact, the condition that results when fat is metabolized. If you are trying to lose weight, it's a good thing!

archangle wrote: If the ketosis is bad enough it affects the pH and can be harmful or even fatal.

Perhaps you are thinking of ketoacidosis in the person with IDDM?

Guest wrote:People without IDDM are not at risk for ketoacidosis, and the other condition, ketosis, is not harmful to them. It is, in fact, the condition that results when fat is metabolized. If you are trying to lose weight, it's a good thing!

Some medical professionals disagree with you that non-diabetics will not get ketoacidosis or other harmful effects from dieting induced ketosis. Some disagree that even mild ketosis is harmless.

Me personally, I think the benefits from prudent dieting far outweigh the risks of ketosis in most cases.

If ketosis is so dangerous for diabetics, how do you explain this?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42689095/ns ... -dialysis/

Sounds a lot like CPAP--all the dire warnings about how dangerous CPAP is if you dare to adjust your own pressure. People who say things like that think they know what they are talking about, but we've all learned differently. This is common in the "nutrition" world as well.

As for the milk, Sleeping Ugly, on a low carb diet you either have to avoid milk (skim, low fat, and even whole milk are fairly high in carbs) or--if your particular low carb approach allows enough carbs--count it in. Half and Half is OK, heavy whipping cream is even better from a carb standpoint. I know it seems counterintuitive and it seems like there is no way to lose weight and protect your heart ingesting heavy whipping cream (and butter, and other saturated animal fats), BUT, amazingly, weight drops off and cholesterol ratios improve, blood pressure too. You get to eat yummy stuff and never have to be hungry. The higher fat products satisfy your hunger without spiking your blood sugar. It seems impossible, yet it works.

Atkins is a bit too extreme for me, and some people seem to get stuck in the no carb induction phase forever. I was very successful last time with something more moderate--a combo of Protein Power and Schwarzbein--both are restricted carbs but not no carbs. Very liveable. I felt like I could do it forever (until pregnancy intervened, and I think I was afraid of getting that particular "side effect" again ) so that's when I fell off the wagon.

This time I'm doing essentially Jorge Cruise's Belly Fat Cure because it's dead simple to count the carbs and sugars. This particularly works well for me because I've done low carb before and understand what needs to be done. We'll see tomorrow (my first weigh in) if it's doing anything, or if I need to cut back the carbs more (so far I haven't hit the amount of sugar and carbs permitted, even with a tiny sliver of my husband's birthday cheesecake last night fully counted in). If it's not working well enough, it is a good interim step to more extreme low carbing. Going from a so-called normal diet to very low carbing is not fun. I see they are now calling the symptoms "induction flu" on the Atkins board, and that's about how rotten you feel for a short time while your body is adjusting (kind of like those sleepless first few weeks on CPAP!).

Janknitz wrote:If ketosis is so dangerous for diabetics, how do you explain this?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42689095/ns ... -dialysis/

Even a non-dieting diabetic may suffer from dangerous or even fatal ketosis. Monitoring ketosis can prevent serious health problems in diabetics.

Just because a diabetic is on a low carb diet, that doesn't mean he can't develop dangerous ketosis because of his underlying diabetic condition. A dieting diabetic shouldn't simply say "I'm dieting, I don't need to worry about ketosis."

I don't know what the proper process is for managing ketosis in a dieting diabetic. I do believe that simply ignoring it is the wrong answer. Presumably, it should be monitored and treatment is needed if the ketones exceed certain levels.

Note I'm not saying "diabetics shouldn't do a low carb diet because of ketosis." I'm saying they shouldn't ignore the risks of severe ketosis that are present in all diabetics.

I like the low carb diet very well. When I stick closely to it I feel so much better. I like the allowed foods and do fine without the others except for an occassional longing for some really tasty bread or pasta. Most bread and pasta are just OK, nothing to miss.

Yesterday morning we had breakfast with long-time friends. He is diabetic, and she follows his diet for some reason I don't understand. He brags that he can eat anything he wants and only has to adjust his insulin to take care of it. I am also diabetic, but no insulin for me, at least not yet. I eat what I want and still maintain excellent A1C and cholesterol numbers. She questioned me about what I could eat and when I said I don't eat fruit except berries, she exclaimed "What a horrible life!" I never was that wild about fruit, especially out of season things like store peaches. Anyway, it is just a different way to accomplish something.

Catnapper - Joanie

I lost weight on Atkins till I had surgery with complications last month. I plan to go back on it once I am fully recovered.

Louise

Slartybartfast wrote:Re: yogurt, I don't think the fat is the problem, but there do seem to be lots of carbs in it, probably from the lactose that is fermented to produce lactic acid, which gives yogurt its tangy taste. And there are lactose-free yogurts, but I've never tried any of them.

That's why I make my own yogurt, with full-fat milk, and ferment it for 24-28 hours between 100F and 110F. I am lactose intolerant, and the long fermentation breaks down all the lactose. Then, after chilling the yogurt for at least eight hours, I drip or drain it down to about half-volume which removes the galactose, a by product of the fermentation process... and presto! No a lot of carbs left.

It's a pretty tart yogurt, and could be an acquired taste, but I like it with small amounts of fresh fruit and vanilla extract. For a carb luxury, I add a bit of honey. I also make savory smoothies, with the yogurt, some cooked veggies, some meat, and some spices. The tangy taste of the yogurt complements meat and veggies.

I make my own yogurt to as it's very frugal and I like knowing exactly what's going into my yogurt. It's very easy as well.

I just completed my first week back to low carbing and my weightloss for the first week was 8.2 lbs. Whoo Hoo!!! I know that a lot of that was water weight (I had a lot of edema after sitting in a car for 10 hour stretches on our family vacation two weeks ago), but what a nice way to start things off! I blew past my 5 lb short term goal with a target date of the end of June .

Except for one bad day when I didn't eat enough (!) this was easy and comfortable like an old shoe (I did low carbing many years ago with good success). As an added bonus, I'm surprised that some chronic back pain that has been plaguing me for the past year is suddenly -- gone! This way of eating is very good at dealing with inflammatory issues.

I'm on the Paleo Diet.... http://thepaleodiet.com/

I can pig out like Caveman!

Janknitz,

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36152&p=312315&hilit=SCD#p312315 is a thread with links about the diet I follow, the Specific Carbohydrate Diet.

Yes, that's exactly why one should do one's own yogurt... you know what's in it, and you can ferment it long enough to get rid of all the lactose.

Another thing which helps with inflammation and chronic pain is uninterrupted sleep. THat's how I was originally diagnosed. Pain that wouldn't stop after my cancer surgery. I'm having it proved for me: my Sunny-girl (13 year old longhaired dachshund) has mitral valve disease, and has panic attacks in the middle of the night. Since I'm not working at the moment, I stay up with her until the attacks are over so my husband can sleep. Ow, ow, ow, the hip pain that went away when I got my Bipap is back!

I need to pull together some info to post about a really neat product I've found for low-carbing.

I'm looking forward to re-starting.

I came back from the wife's place amongst the big drippy trees in Washington, two weeks ago with one heck of a rash. I think it was a bottle of Riesling wine we finished off between the two of us the night before I left. Other than that, those were the only carbs I have indulged in since I started. Next morning I noticed what looked like insect bites on my feet and elbows. Then it spread. Everyhere, but mainly my legs, torso and undersides of my arms. Never had a reaction like that before. Was in agony trying to avoid scratching on the plane ride home, then walked a mile and a half to work where my car was parked scratching all the way. When I finally got home I stripped off my clothes and got in a cool shower. Looked like a peeled potato with red paint splattered on it.

Next a.m. I called my dermatologist's office as soon as they opened and explained I can't go in to work with a rash until it's been diagnosed (company policy). The Front Office relented and I saw the doc. Her comment was, "Wow, that's an impressive rash." What did you have to eat that you're allergic to?" Only thing different within the 12-24 hour window she gave me was the wine. Maybe the sulfites?

Upshot was she prescribed a hefty dose of Prednisone for 15 days. 24 hours later the rash was on the retreat. Side effect of which is to elevate blood sugar, and weight gain, besides making one feel like climbing the walls. So, despite staying very solidly on the wagon, diet wise, I stopped losing for the past two weeks. Yesterday was my last dose.

Looking forward to resuming the journey.