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Otter wrote:One theory on why so many are like this is that it's the consequence of our modern diet. It doesn't make sense that we'd evolve to have too many teeth and not be able to breathe at night, so I think there's probably something to it.
http://www.westonaprice.org/dentistry/1 ... apnea.html

1. Agreed. The diet is the major factor but there are some other factors that I am gathering information on.

2. You are right that we did not evolve to have too many teeth to fit in the jaw. According to Dr. David Singh (http://www.dnaappliance.com/about_us.html) the genes are still there for jaws large enough to comfortably hold 32 teeth. The proof of this statement is that they are using DNA appliances to increase jaw bone development in a natural way which allows the body to move teeth into their correct positions without the use of traditional biomechanical forces. The DNA appliance stimulates the genes to do the work they were intended to do - cause jaw bone growth.

i count 30...i think it's 14 on the bottom and 16 on the top. I do recall some bottom wisdom teeth problems from college days. so where does that leave me on the spectrum???
I did have braces on the top to correct an overbite and they did nothing about the bottom.
I definitely think my jaw is narrow and my tongue is short.

bayourest wrote: so where does that leave me on the spectrum???

IMO we were designed to have 32 teeth, straight and not crowded - no braces needed. Anything below 32 is a sign of a narrow jaw and consequently a narrow airway.

i go to the dentist twice a year to get my tooth cleaned

Full set of teeth, too many to count ...


All kidding aside I am one of those with an underdeveloped jaw and crowded, crooked teeth along each side.

Dr. Park claims he can diagnose OSA just by casually looking at the shape of someone's face, and I bet he can for this very reason.

My daughter and I have a genetic disorder called Noonan's syndrome, and one of the hallmarks is micrognathia, or small jaw. I had no wisdom teeth, had to have 4 teeth pulled and years of braces, which left me still with a very narrow and crowded jaw. No surprise that I have OSA. The orthodontia I had 40 years ago was "state of the art" but it did me no favors.

Fortunately for my daughter, we found a very good orthodontist who really seems to understand all this. My daughter has had her first round of orthodontia, aimed solely at widening her jaw. He used a system called the Damon System, not the medieval thing where there's a spreader in the roof of the mouth because the orthodontist feels strongly that the tongue must be free to help push the teeth out into the correct alignment. In a few years she will have a second phase that will include something called the "herbst appliance" that will help move the lower jaw forward. I'm praying that this will prevent OSA for her,

The syndrome we have is named after Dr. Jaqueline Noonan, a pediatric cardiologist. I've been fortunate to meet her and hear her speak. She said she could simply look at a bunch of kids with the same heart condition in the waiting room of a clinic and differentiate which ones had the particular syndrome that would later be named after her--just by the shape of their jaws.

Janknitz wrote: where there's a spreader in the roof of the mouth because the orthodontist feels strongly that the tongue must be free to help push the teeth out into the correct alignment. In a few years she will have a second phase that will include something called the "herbst appliance" that will help move the lower jaw forward. I'm praying that this will prevent OSA for her,

JanKnitz, I have read your posts about this before. This seems to cover widening of the maxilla from side to side and maybe (?) lengthening of the mandible from front to back. What seems to be missing is lengthening of the maxilla and widening of the mandible.

I am curious about this because of concern that my children never end up like me with severe obstructive sleep apnea.

Thanks.

roster wrote:2. You are right that we did not evolve to have too many teeth to fit in the jaw. According to Dr. David Singh (http://www.dnaappliance.com/about_us.html) the genes are still there for jaws large enough to comfortably hold 32 teeth. The proof of this statement is that they are using DNA appliances to increase jaw bone development in a natural way which allows the body to move teeth into their correct positions without the use of traditional biomechanical forces. The DNA appliance stimulates the genes to do the work they were intended to do - cause jaw bone growth.

I'm not sure anything is clear or proven yet. While it's obvious that stimulating bone growth to make room for teeth is better than pulling some and jamming the rest into an attractive pattern, I suspect that the "DNA" involvement is largely marketing. I have not researched this in any depth yet, though, and I may be missing something. In Singh's system, "DNA" stands for "daytime nighttime appliance" and "do not adjust" (wire). It's not at all clear from what I've read so far how his system impacts deoxyribonucleic acid. Does it really alter gene expression, or is it simply that if you can get the bone to grow as it should, the genetic mechanisms that would have been active anyway, but stymied by the lack of space, will correctly position the teeth?

No matter how it actually works, I think you're doing right by your daughter. It would be nice if we actually understood jaw development and knew for sure how to make a child's jaw grow as it should, but she can't wait for the science, so you have to take the best that's currently available. May she never have OSA or any other jaw-related problems.

Have you made any adjustments to the family diet with jaw development in mind?

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Otter wrote: Does it really alter gene expression, or is it simply that if you can get the bone to grow as it should, the genetic mechanisms that would have been active anyway, but stymied by the lack of space, will correctly position the teeth?

From what I understood from Dr. Park's interview last week of Dr. Singh, the DNA device is a catalyst to get the jaw bone to grow as the genes would have it grow.

Here is a quote I picked up some time ago. Sorry, but I did not keep a record of who/when.

The DNA appliance will help the jaw grow to it's maximum size and the teeth will drift
to the most stable position which tends to be in the straight alignment. So, if the teeth are crowded, that means that the jaw size was stunted. Teeth size is determined by DNA. Jaw size is partly dictated by DNA and environment (function and nutrition). If the jaws are not used as they are expected in nature such as breast feeding and chewing unprocessed foods, then the jaws do not grow to their maximum potential. Then teeth crowd and some teeth such as the third molars
do not have room to come in.

Dr. Singh claims the device has been used on adults as old as seventies with excellent results.

There is much more information in the journal articles than the marketing materials.

roster wrote:Dr. Singh claims the device has been used on adults as old as seventies with excellent results.

Really?

I'd have thought that after adolescence, there wouldn't be much chance of the jaw growing. Could there be hope for us all?

roster wrote:

The DNA appliance will help the jaw grow to it's maximum size and the teeth will drift
to the most stable position which tends to be in the straight alignment. So, if the teeth are crowded, that means that the jaw size was stunted. Teeth size is determined by DNA. Jaw size is partly dictated by DNA and environment (function and nutrition). If the jaws are not used as they are expected in nature such as breast feeding and chewing unprocessed foods, then the jaws do not grow to their maximum potential.

So the jaw needs a workout. That's really not too surprising. I eat a fair amount of unprocessed food now, but I haven't noticed my teeth moving into more spacious quarters. If the DNA Appliance (Daytime and Nighttime Appliance Appliance?) can cause an old man's jaw to grow, how is it different than chewing roots and nuts?

JanKnitz, I have read your posts about this before. This seems to cover widening of the maxilla from side to side and maybe (?) lengthening of the mandible from front to back. What seems to be missing is lengthening of the maxilla and widening of the mandible.

Hmmm. It's a good question for an orthodontist.

We do have a pretty healthy diet. My husband is the cook in the family and also a health nut. We avoid most processed foods, eat tons of vegies, whole grains, and fruit. I bake homemade bread with whole grains and sourdough leavening and make homemade yogurt. I have the only kids I know who eat the vegies first and ask for seconds on the vegies before eating what else is on the plate. No chicken nugget diet here. We actually sit down as a family and eat dinner together every night--my kids think this is all terribly embarrassing and weird compared to their friends who are being raised on frozen pizzas and take out.

Otter wrote:I'd have thought that after adolescence, there wouldn't be much chance of the jaw growing. Could there be hope for us all?

Yes! Look at the photo gallery of the older lady on the DNA website.

I would love to hear your comments after listening to the interview. You can download it from https://www.dropbox.com/s/5b2nz6f4hqaowkm/Singh.mp3

At the risk of getting naughty, a narrow jaw has one advantage. --How to put this politely; it is a good excuse for not, umm, you know, , ,

I have all 32 of my original teeth - despite my dentist trying to talk me into having my wisdom teeth removed merely to avoid difficult to reach areas for future work. Had my four-monthly check up and cleaning last week and left with flying colours and no work to be done since a crown over a year ago.

I'm only 6-months into CPAP, but hope the good continues.

Cheers,
xena