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comstosf wrote:In the DME's defense, it could be they didn't know about the existence of EncoreViewer (which I somewhat doubt)

I don't doubt that. I think very few...VERY few... DMEs know that EncoreViewer software exists even though it's been available for several years. Most of the DME's customers are oblivious about just about anything to do with "CPAP." The DME is not accustomed to a customer who knows anything about CPAP, much less one who's interested in software to do their own downloads. I'd say the DME thought "Encore Pro" the instant she heard "software." I'll bet she wasn't aware at all that Respironics had created another version "for patients" -- the version called EncoreViewer.

comstosf wrote:As for the question that they had to call Respironics for, it was whether or not the machine had an altitude adjustment (it does).

If she didn't already know that, or didn't have a manual to look it up, and had to actually call Respironics with that question...

A better phone call for her to have made to Respironics would have been to ask them if there is such a thing as "Encore software for patients to use." Especially since a customer who is "a computer programmer by profession & training" was aware it existed. Respironics could have told her EncoreViewer was created specifically for patients and cannot "nuke" the compliance data, nor does it have anything in it that allows changing the machine settings...even accidentally.

comstosf wrote:The other questions I had were answered quite nicely; in fact, in one case (hose management) they explicitly mentioned cpap.com

ok...in that case, she done good.

Personally, my reaction to this DME's recalcitrance in selling you Encoreviewer software would be to explain to them that it's a package deal. If they are interested in selling a cpap and mask, then they are also going to sell the other accessories, including Encoreviewer. If they will not sell the entire package, then they will sell nothing. I'd then give my business to someone who will.

Note that this only works if you have an alternative that meets your needs. Other DMEs may be even worse (for other reasons) than the one your are dealing with. Cpap.com (or other online supplier) will sell you the package, but it may not be accepted by your insurer.

It may be tempting to buy from this DME the items that are covered by insurance, and buy the rest someplace else. However, a major downside to this approach is that it gives business to a DME that will willingly deceive and mislead you. Who knows what other ways they are, or will take advantage of you?

It looks like a little more homework might be in order. At a minimum, you need a new DME.

.......my 2 cents.......

I suspect that my insurance doesn't cover the software, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. As I said, I don't want to purchase the software until the CPAP is fully paid for. I will, however, insist on copies of the reports they get from the card (which I believe I'm legally entitled to). Is the therapy working? I only started last night, so it's way too early to tell for sure. However, I'm pretty confident. This morning was the first in a VERY long time that I didn't have to force myself out of bed. Other than a sore chest, I'm feeling great

As for my DME's recalcitrance/ignorance, at this point I'm a little hesitant to change providers solely on that basis so soon after beginning therapy. I do have an ace-in-the-hole (an in-law who works for another DME provider) in case it hits the fan. I only went with this one because it's part of the same sleep therapy center that did my PSGs, although I admit that I should have done some more homework on affiliated-vs-unaffiliated DMEs.

For the moment, I'll make do with the statistics available from the device's screen and save the heavy lifting for when there's more data to work with.

[quote="Pugsy"][quote="comstosf"]
Now with EncorePro (which reports look just like EncoreViewer) there is the danger of erasing the card because during the upload of the data there is a default choice to "erase the card", so a person has to remember to uncheck that box before uploading data. I have done this once, last Sunday, wasn't paying close enough attention to what I was doing and my mouse click to remove the check mark didn't stick and the card got erased. That accident would be the only type of accident that might alert the DME to the user using software.quote]

Pugsy:
You can avoid the erase risk entirely by downloading the free Synctoy application from the Microsoft web site ( Windows only ) and use it to make a copy of the SD card before starting Encore Pro. This application has several types of download available and you select the source - that's the SD card, the target - that's where you want the data on your computer, and ECHO the type of download to perform. Then Synctoy will copy all the files and folders from the SD card to your computer.
If you mess up and let Encore Pro delete the data, just set up a reverse copy function that goes from your compture back to the SD card. After the first execution, Synctoy only copies the new data from the SD card to the backup file. It only takes about 30 seconds or so.

The neat thing about this process is that there is no limitation on the number of days of data that will be compiled into the single backup folder. Here's the URL for the download. Just select the one that fits your OS.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/d ... d0592d8c52

Thanks, that is nice information to have JDS74.

However, all that really matters is getting the therapy working well. It is extremely rare when I go back beyond the current download to look at data. Why do I care what my statistics were in November 2010 - that is water under the bridge or air through the CPAP hose. All I want to see is how was my Daily Details report for last night and are my settings and my mask right for tonight.

JDS74 wrote: The neat thing about this process is that there is no limitation on the number of days of data that will be compiled into the single backup folder. Here's the URL for the download. Just select the one that fits your OS.

Would this process that you describe work on my Smart Card? I have older M series machine and do not use the SD card. Erasing the smart card doesn't really present any difficulties to me because I don't (nor ever had) any DME and insurance compliance to worry about. Plus I have the data in the software. It was just a PITA for me the day I did that because at the same time my old EncoreViewer 1.0 just up and died. First time in nearly 2 years that I erased the card..I had 2 screw ups in about 10 minutes. Neither was fatal, just annoying.

My caution against erasing the card is mainly directed towards users that still have to meet insurance compliance with DME.

Now I just have to see if I can repair EncoreViewer but it doesn't look good. Won't even open properly..

comstosf wrote: As for my DME's recalcitrance/ignorance, at this point I'm a little hesitant to change providers solely on that basis so soon after beginning therapy. I do have an ace-in-the-hole (an in-law who works for another DME provider) in case it hits the fan. I only went with this one because it's part of the same sleep therapy center that did my PSGs, although I admit that I should have done some more homework on affiliated-vs-unaffiliated DMEs.

(note highlighted text, above).

If your sleep doc is not affiliated with the centre, then it's likely OK. However, if your diagnosis of OSA comes from someone in the sleep therapy centre, then they have a conflict of interest. That's enough reason to RUN from this DME. You should never trust someone to diagnose you and then offer to sell you the solution; money distorts everything!

[/quote]Would this process that you describe work on my Smart Card? I have older M series machine and do not use the SD card. .quote]

It will work IF, when you put the Smart Card in its reader, you can see it as a regular windows drive. Just click on START and then Explore to get you to the list of drives your computer can see. BTW if you can see it, it won't matter whether the data is encrypted on the card so that only Encore Viewer can access it.

Hope this helps.

I don't want to purchase the software until the CPAP is fully paid for.

In any event, to avoid any complications, I don't plan on purchasing the software until the machine is paid for; I don't want the DME telling my insurance that I was "noncompliant" on that basis and socking me with the other half of the cost.

Truly, with Encore Viewer there is NO danger that the software will cause any changes or issues that would make you look non-compliant, AND the DME will have no way of knowing if you are reading your own card or not. Meanwhile, if you are waiting to purchase the software, you are losing out on valuable data that can help you AND your doctor optimize your therapy. And the DME will get paid more than the software costs to download data for you only two times--plus they will not share it with you--you'll have to request it from your doctor.

The data on the PR S1 screen is just not that helpful. It gives you only a 7 and 30 day average for AHI's and does not break down those AHI's into what kind they are, (Obstructives, hypopneas, centrals), nor tell you WHEN they occured to see if you are having "clusters" of events due to something going on (mask leaks, REM sleep, transitional sleep, etc). And you are unlikely to see ANY leaks register on the screen--it records only "large" leaks for 7 and 30 day averages. Do the math to figure out how much of a leak for how long you need to even register 1% in 7 days.

You can take a look on my blog (http://www.maskarrayed.wordpress.com) for the "Respironics Data Tutorial" to see the kind of valuable information you can get with the software. You won't regret this software purchase!

JDS74 wrote:

Would this process that you describe work on my Smart Card? I have older M series machine and do not use the SD card. .quote]

It will work IF, when you put the Smart Card in its reader, you can see it as a regular windows drive. Just click on START and then Explore to get you to the list of drives your computer can see. BTW if you can see it, it won't matter whether the data is encrypted on the card so that only Encore Viewer can access it.[/quote]

Alas, I cannot find the data card reader showing up anywhere. No separate drive for it even though it is plugged in and lit up with card in slot. I see my other drives but nothing else. Windows recognizes it as hardware but that is it.
Tis a good idea though and one I might just try it one of these days because I am thinking of getting one of the new fancy machines. I will save your link just in case. Always like to try new stuff to see how long it takes before I mess it up.

Thank you for the idea though. I do appreciate it.

With apologies to comstosf for an OT post...

While SyncToy is good for copying files in general for repetitive tasks (I use it heavily), it's use for copying files back to Resmed S9 SD cards can be problematic - possibly others as well.

The problem is that the S9 detects if the files in the root directory of the card have been moved in regards to their physical location(s) on the card. Without using specialized copy software, files will almost certainly be written to different physical parts of the card. If that happens with the S9, it won't accept the card and will most likely prompt to format it.

Plus, the SyncToy*.dat files that are put into the root folder of the source and target folders will likely be detected by the S9 and cause the same problem. It could be deleted from the card after the copy, but that takes away from SyncToy's usefulness.

Luckily, those root directory files (Identification.crc, Identification.tgt, Journal.dat, STR.crc, and STR.edf) can be re-created by the S9 in their entirety providing that the S9 has not been reset. Anytime that I need to copy data back onto the card (such as my weekly reset to avoid data skewing), I delete everything from the card, insert it into the S9 and power up. Once the machine is ready to go, having written the root directory files back as part of it's power up sequence when it finds a blank card, I then power the S9 down, take the card to my computer, and then copy only the files in the DATALOG folder back to the card.

Note - this issue only pertains to re-building a card's file when the card will go back into the machine. The ResScan software doesn't care about this, though it, too, could balk at the SyncToy*.dat file. I haven't tested that as I generally use PKZip to make and restore backups of my card.

I don't want to purchase the software until the CPAP is fully paid for.

In any event, to avoid any complications, I don't plan on purchasing the software until the machine is paid for; I don't want the DME telling my insurance that I was "noncompliant" on that basis and socking me with the other half of the cost.

This isn't rocket science. Hang around here, read some threads and most likely you'll change your mind, pretty quick. The only person that truly has your best interests in mind is you.

Why would you not gather as many bits of information about you, your treatment and how you are responding to your treatment? The software allows you to do that.

I found that after a couple of days of hanging around here, in IT lingo - I knew my requirements, completed my functional specs, reviewed my detailed design, completed my coding and was ready for system testing soon followed by User Acceptance testing. And my friendly DME - was still woefully ignorant.

Get the software. Actively review how you are doing. Review how others are doing and make small adjustments. Rinse and repeat. It really will make a difference!

Mark

JDS74 wrote: You can avoid the erase risk entirely by downloading the free Synctoy application from the Microsoft web site ( Windows only ) and use it to make a copy of the SD card before starting Encore Pro. This application has several types of download available and you select the source - that's the SD card, the target - that's where you want the data on your computer, and ECHO the type of download to perform. Then Synctoy will copy all the files and folders from the SD card to your computer.
If you mess up and let Encore Pro delete the data, just set up a reverse copy function that goes from your compture back to the SD card. After the first execution, Synctoy only copies the new data from the SD card to the backup file. It only takes about 30 seconds or so.

The neat thing about this process is that there is no limitation on the number of days of data that will be compiled into the single backup folder. Here's the URL for the download. Just select the one that fits your OS.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/d ... d0592d8c52

Thank you for that link!

Say no more, you convinced me I'll give my sister-in-law a call later and have her order it for me, and if the DME doesn't like it, too bad.

And another OSA patient has been coaxed over to the dark side...taking control, being knowledgeable and proactive!

it's nice to come over to the dark side, we have cookies!

(I don't know where that saying came from, but I love it).

Weezy