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Re: Doctor - Patient Disconnect

Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:05 pm
by jnk
DHC wrote:. . . Clearly there are some generous and kind and caring people here - and there are some who are in dire need of their caring support. There are also some who are so protective of their 'position' within this community they allow their zeal to cloud their judgment and engage in behavior that will drive people away. . . . I am . . . somewhat concerned about some of you and the psychology of allowing someone on the internet to cause you real-life pain - but not so concerned/invested that I will let your predictable responses upset or "hurt" me.

Maintain your perspectives and there is little chance the electrons someone sends across the internet are going to result in your feeling "hurt".

Offered FWIW (and I mean it) [and now donning my flame-resistant shroud]
I won't flame you. But I will respectfully disagree with a few of your points, if you don't mind.

If you admit that people can be "generous and kind and caring" in a forum, then you also must admit, in my opinion, that people can be less than "generous and kind and caring" in a forum. If generosity, kindness, and caring can be helpful to others in a forum, then it follows that the lack of such qualities can be hurtful.

If you admit that "there are some who are in dire need of . . . caring support," then you must also admit, in my opinion, that being here to receive such support is completely understandable. It is the sole reason some are here. So if someone comes here to pass himself off as a professional and expresses information that is inaccurate and misleading, that can be hurtful on many, many levels.

If you admit that this is a "community" in which some hold "positions" based on reputation, then you must also admit, in my opinion, that any community must hold to some basic standards to maintain the productive existence of the "community," even online.

If you admit that there is "behavior that will drive people away," then you must also admit, in my opinion, that it is healthy to point out such behavior and label it, just as you attempted to do yourself in your statements about those who you feel "allow their zeal to cloud their judgment."

I understand the confusion about "the psychology of allowing someone on the internet to cause you real-life pain," but if you admit that a forum can be used to alleviate pain and suffering, you must admit it can be misused to inflict pain and suffering, it seems to me.

I understand your position that you are "not so concerned/invested that I will let your predictable responses upset or 'hurt' me." Even if that is true, choosing to remain emotionally uninvested is a choice that can cut both ways. Aloof works well for some. Invested works well for some. We each make our choice. But I would not judge the validity of either choice.

For some, forums are only about information. For others, forums are only about human contact and getting support in dealing with life's trials. For others, forums are only about entertainment. This forum contains all three approaches and various combinations of the three. Mostly, we coexist without too many major misunderstandings. Occasionally, Johnny is forced to make hard decisions for the good of patients and participants. I am glad I don't have the responsibility to make such decisions. I am glad he knows he does. I don't mind supporting whatever he decides in such matters, myself. Part of my reason is that I prefer to see this place, and ANY place, be more about fellow-feeling and helpfulness than about hurting people. Both possibilities exist whatever the medium used for such contact between humans.

Re: Doctor - Patient Disconnect

Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:29 pm
by Sleepy Taz
jnk wrote "For some, forums are only about information. For others, forums are only about human contact and getting support in dealing with life's trials. For others, forums are only about entertainment. This forum contains all three approaches and various combinations of the three. Mostly, we coexist without too many major misunderstandings. Occasionally, Johnny is forced to make hard decisions for the good of patients and participants. I am glad I don't have the responsibility to make such decisions. I am glad he knows he does. I don't mind supporting whatever he decides in such matters, myself. Part of my reason is that I prefer to see this place, and ANY place, be more about fellow-feeling and helpfulness than about hurting people. Both possibilities exist whatever the medium used for such contact between humans. "

Well said!!!!!!!

Re: Doctor - Patient Disconnect

Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:47 pm
by jonquiljo
jnk wrote: For some, forums are only about information. For others, forums are only about human contact and getting support in dealing with life's trials. For others, forums are only about entertainment. This forum contains all three approaches and various combinations of the three. Mostly, we coexist without too many major misunderstandings. Occasionally, Johnny is forced to make hard decisions for the good of patients and participants. I am glad I don't have the responsibility to make such decisions. I am glad he knows he does. I don't mind supporting whatever he decides in such matters, myself. Part of my reason is that I prefer to see this place, and ANY place, be more about fellow-feeling and helpfulness than about hurting people. Both possibilities exist whatever the medium used for such contact between humans.

I agree too. I find this "johnny" guy amazing to walk the fine line between business, ethics, and Internet support. Most people wouldn't bother. This board couldn't possibly be driving his business much - so this becomes even more of a generous gesture.

Re: Doctor - Patient Disconnect

Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:21 pm
by jnk
jonquiljo wrote: . . . I find this "johnny" guy amazing . . .
I've always made it a rule of thumb not to give a hard time to any drummers that do Tae Kwon Do--they know how to kick things into line without even missing a beat.

wiki/index.php/User:Johnnygoodman

Re: Doctor - Patient Disconnect

Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:30 pm
by DHC
jnk wrote:
DHC wrote:. . . Clearly there are some generous and kind and caring people here - and there are some who are in dire need of their caring support. There are also some who are so protective of their 'position' within this community they allow their zeal to cloud their judgment and engage in behavior that will drive people away. . . . I am . . . somewhat concerned about some of you and the psychology of allowing someone on the internet to cause you real-life pain - but not so concerned/invested that I will let your predictable responses upset or "hurt" me.

Maintain your perspectives and there is little chance the electrons someone sends across the internet are going to result in your feeling "hurt".

Offered FWIW (and I mean it) [and now donning my flame-resistant shroud]
I won't flame you. But I will respectfully disagree with a few of your points, if you don't mind.

If you admit that people can be "generous and kind and caring" in a forum, then you also must admit, in my opinion, that people can be less than "generous and kind and caring" in a forum. If generosity, kindness, and caring can be helpful to others in a forum, then it follows that the lack of such qualities can be hurtful.

If you admit that "there are some who are in dire need of . . . caring support," then you must also admit, in my opinion, that being here to receive such support is completely understandable. It is the sole reason some are here. So if someone comes here to pass himself off as a professional and expresses information that is inaccurate and misleading, that can be hurtful on many, many levels.

If you admit that this is a "community" in which some hold "positions" based on reputation, then you must also admit, in my opinion, that any community must hold to some basic standards to maintain the productive existence of the "community," even online.

If you admit that there is "behavior that will drive people away," then you must also admit, in my opinion, that it is healthy to point out such behavior and label it, just as you attempted to do yourself in your statements about those who you feel "allow their zeal to cloud their judgment."

I understand the confusion about "the psychology of allowing someone on the internet to cause you real-life pain," but if you admit that a forum can be used to alleviate pain and suffering, you must admit it can be misused to inflict pain and suffering, it seems to me.

I understand your position that you are "not so concerned/invested that I will let your predictable responses upset or 'hurt' me." Even if that is true, choosing to remain emotionally uninvested is a choice that can cut both ways. Aloof works well for some. Invested works well for some. We each make our choice. But I would not judge the validity of either choice.

For some, forums are only about information. For others, forums are only about human contact and getting support in dealing with life's trials. For others, forums are only about entertainment. This forum contains all three approaches and various combinations of the three. Mostly, we coexist without too many major misunderstandings. Occasionally, Johnny is forced to make hard decisions for the good of patients and participants. I am glad I don't have the responsibility to make such decisions. I am glad he knows he does. I don't mind supporting whatever he decides in such matters, myself. Part of my reason is that I prefer to see this place, and ANY place, be more about fellow-feeling and helpfulness than about hurting people. Both possibilities exist whatever the medium used for such contact between humans.
>>But I will respectfully disagree with a few of your points, if you don't mind.<<

I don't mind at all.

>>We each make our choice.<<

Please pardon the soundbite as there is a lot of good information in your post - though this one point is, IMO, the most pertinent.

I agree - and that is a large part of what I meant to get across. We all make choices. We make choices to participate (or not) at this forum. We make choices to engage (or not) in a contentious topic. We make choices (or not) to form bonds with people whom we meet on the internet. We also make choices (or not) as to whether to allow another person to 'get under our skin' to the point we lose sleep or slam the computer or accuse the innocent or .... whatever.

It *is* a choice.

I choose to TRY (not nearly as successfully as I might wish) to remain calm in the face of unfounded allegation (avoiding use of the phrase "ad hominem" in deference to SleepingUgly ). Others choose differently. My choices are not the fault of another - no matter how irritating they may want to be. I can walk away from most internet squabbles and not think twice about it. If others make a different choice - OK. But then they should (again - IMO) be prepared to 'own' their choice in allowing themselves to get wound up.

And finally, it should be obvious that if I did not care, at least a little (so I am not entirely "aloof"), I would not take the time to compose the posts.

Still - they are offered *only* FWIW.

Re: Doctor - Patient Disconnect

Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:36 pm
by scrapper
When will you guys learn....don't mess with Doris! Knock it off now before she takes her good wooden spoon after you.........

Re: Doctor - Patient Disconnect

Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:40 pm
by elena88
DHC wrote;
And finally, it should be obvious that if I did not care, at least a little (so I am not entirely "aloof"), I would not take the time to compose the posts.
DHC,
One can throw a blanket over a fire and believe they did their part, but then to watch the blanket burn as fuel for the existing fire,
that is another level of aloofness..

I dont "get" you.. and I really dont want to.. there is a time for spreading "world peace", and there is a time for action.


and I dont have any more time for this... tootles..

Re: Doctor - Patient Disconnect

Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:49 pm
by DHC
elena88 wrote: DHC,
One can throw a blanket over a fire and believe they did their part, but then to watch the blanket burn as fuel for the existing fire,
that is another level of aloofness..

I dont "get" you.. and I really dont want to.. there is a time for spreading "world peace", and there is a time for action.


and I dont have any more time for this... tootles..
#1 >>I dont "get" you..<<

Clearly.

#2 >>and I really dont want to..<<

OK. I won't lose any sleep over it.

#3 >>there is a time for spreading "world peace"<<

If you are suggesting my posts are "spreading world peace" - I'll point you back to your earlier point #1.

#4 >>and there is a time for action.<<

No argument.

#5 >>and I dont have any more time for this... tootles..<<

Take care.

Re: Doctor - Patient Disconnect

Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:46 pm
by DoriC
jnk and DHC, You both make good points and I can't argue with either of your postions, but what I most enjoy is the respect you both have shown each other regardless of your different views on the subject. I love this forum!

Re: Doctor - Patient Disconnect

Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:46 pm
by rested gal
DoriC wrote:jnk and DHC, You both make good points and I can't argue with either of your postions, but what I most enjoy is the respect you both have shown each other regardless of your different views on the subject. I love this forum!
I couldn't agree more, Dori. The exchanges between jnk and DHC were a pleasure to read... and to think about.