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Re: Sleep Apnea Patient Killed by Colonoscopy

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:54 pm
by elena88
true, first place I "interviewed" a doctor for this procedure had the endoscopy "center" in the next suite across the hall from their office..
NOT in a hospital...
they ran them in and out of there like cattle!

I decided to go interview another doctor.. who worked in a fantastic hospital.. and Im glad I went there..

I would suggest, if you could, to have it done at the best hospital, best physician you can find..

dont be afraid to call around and meet with the docs and interview THEM..

Especially if you are a little apprehensive about the procedure..

Re: Sleep Apnea Patient Killed by Colonoscopy

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:27 pm
by Patrick A
Rooster
Now my @#$& *&^% hurts just looking at that picture. You should also take those jawbreakers out of your mouth.

Re: Sleep Apnea Patient Killed by Colonoscopy

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 12:33 am
by WearyOne
I had one last year in the doctor's office. I don't know what they gave me, but I know I was at least semi-awake for part of it because I remember some of what they said, and I watched some of the procedure on a monitor. And I remember moaning loudly at one point and the nurse told me they would be past that point in a minute! It was interesting watching it on the monitor, that's for sure!

Re: Sleep Apnea Patient Killed by Colonoscopy

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 1:17 am
by elena88
that first hairpin turn is a doozy!

I watched the whole thing, I was WIDE awake..

Re: Sleep Apnea Patient Killed by Colonoscopy

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 5:36 am
by roster
For anyone who has not undergone a colonoscopy, I have had three and they were very easy. I slept peacefully through them. On one of them I woke up, started watching the monitor and tried to say something about what I saw. It seems someone twisted a dial and I went right back under.

The prep wasn't a big deal. I just went home from work early with some DVDs and the family kept the bathroom clear for my frequent trips.

One lady in our office told her boss she would be doing the prep at work and would be making frequent trips to the bathroom that afternoon. She got a lot of, "There she goes again", from the characters along the hall.

The only bad part for me was skipping dinner and breakfast the next morning. I never like to miss a meal.

The doc said it was easy for most people. The ones who have the most problems are women who have had hysterectomies. With all the "free space", the colon tends to relax all over and has twists that can be difficult to maneuver.

All of my colonoscopies have been in a clinic in a nonhospital setting. Unless you have some serious health problems, don't worry about not being in a hospital. But do get references from several friends or associates on a good doctor.

As far as I am concerned the only thing between me and preventing death by metastic colon cancer is a little inconvenience and missing two meals.

Re: Sleep Apnea Patient Killed by Colonoscopy

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 7:23 am
by pdean44
I have to get it over with so will be making the call soon.

Re: Sleep Apnea Patient Killed by Colonoscopy

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 7:51 am
by Portageegal
Great ... I just made an appointment for one a couple of days ago. It is at a hospital and my dr. is great. I still will mention this to him.

Re: Sleep Apnea Patient Killed by Colonoscopy

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 7:56 am
by Slinky
And there are free-standing Endoscopy centers. We have a couple of in area. I don't know of any doctor's offices in our area that do endoscopies or colonoscopies in-office but there are quite a few crohnies on the Crohn's disease forums who have their scopes done in their gastro's office. My current gastro does her scopes at both local hospital onsite endoscopy departments and at a local free-standing endoscopy center. The patients are given their choice of where they prefer to have the procedure done - unless they prefer propofol. If the patient prefers propofol my gastro insists that the scopes be done at one or the other of the in-hosptal endoscopy departments w/the patient's choice of which one of the two.

Propofol is very short acting. Its effects begin to wear off quickly immediately after stopping its administration. Often it is used to "put the patient under" and then another anesthestic used to keep the patient "under" during longer procedures and surgeries. Most surgeries the anesthesiologist uses a combination of drugs to combat pain, keep the patient unaware, prevent muscle movement, erase memory during the procedure, to keep the patient's vital signs stable, etc.

During short procedures such as the scopes only enough sedation (called conscious sedation) is administered to keep the patient compliant but able to respond to verbal directions from the doctor and unable to remember the procedure.

Re: Sleep Apnea Patient Killed by Colonoscopy

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 12:38 pm
by joelrk35
roster wrote:
Family says CRNA should have been supervised while administering anesthesia to patient with sleep apnea.

The family of a man with sleep apnea who died during a routine colonoscopy is suing the nurse anesthetist who cared for the patient.

Article: http://www.outpatientsurgery.net/news/2010/05/12



I guess this is a relief:
The biopsy results of the polyps found during the procedure were not malignant


Rooster
I had trouble being intubated five years ago. This was before I was diagnosed with severe sleep apnea. They used a device called an LMA to intubate me. You can watch the following to see how it is used: http://www.youtube/watch?v=96e46PyARaU I just had an endoscopy on Monday and made sure the Anesthesiologist knew that I had Sleep Apnea and that there would be a problem if they had to intubate me. I made sure an LAM was available. They also used Propofol which I wasn't thrilled about but hadn't read the article you posted. I have copied the article and will discuss it with my Gastroenterologist next week when I have a follow up appointment.
Joel

Re: Sleep Apnea Patient Killed by Colonoscopy

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 12:43 pm
by joelrk35
joelrk35 wrote:
roster wrote:
Family says CRNA should have been supervised while administering anesthesia to patient with sleep apnea.

The family of a man with sleep apnea who died during a routine colonoscopy is suing the nurse anesthetist who cared for the patient.

Article: http://www.outpatientsurgery.net/news/2010/05/12



I guess this is a relief:
The biopsy results of the polyps found during the procedure were not malignant


Rooster
I had trouble being intubated five years ago. This was before I was diagnosed with severe sleep apnea. They used a device called an LMA to intubate me. You can watch the following to see how it is used: http://www.youtube/watch?v=96e46PyARaU I just had an endoscopy on Monday and made sure the Anesthesiologist knew that I had Sleep Apnea and that there would be a problem if they had to intubate me. I made sure an LAM was available. They also used Propofol which I wasn't thrilled about but hadn't read the article you posted. I have copied the article and will discuss it with my Gastroenterologist next week when I have a follow up appointment.
Joel
Made a mistake in the link Should be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96e46PyARaU

Re: Sleep Apnea Patient Killed by Colonoscopy

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 3:01 pm
by roster
joelrk35 wrote: link Should be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96e46PyARaU

Hmm. Wonder if I could sleep with one of those and forget this CPAP mess?

Re: Sleep Apnea Patient Killed by Colonoscopy

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 3:03 pm
by roster
Slinky wrote:And there are free-standing Endoscopy centers.

I believe in reducing the cost of health care, but that is going a good bit too far!!!

Re: Sleep Apnea Patient Killed by Colonoscopy

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 3:36 pm
by nosbig17
It in not necessary to be put under during a colonoscopy.

All I felt was a little pressure, it wasn't even uncomfortable.

Re: Sleep Apnea Patient Killed by Colonoscopy

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 4:28 pm
by Slinky
True, Nosebig. I have most of my colonoscopies w/o sedation, my preference. I happen to like watching the monitor, remembering and not being all groggy and "thick" and sleepy the rest of the day.

That being said, any discomfort or pain encountered is almost entirely due to the skill or lack of skill of the person doing the scope, unless one has some colon involvement such as UC, Crohn's colitis, etc. And the number of scopes the person doing the procedure has done doesn't necessarily reflect their skill. They don't need a whole lotta skill if all their patients are "knocked out" and won't remember the procedure. Sedated colonoscopies are time-savers for the person doing the scope.
Endoscopy 2002 Jun;34(6):435-40

Patient pain during colonoscopy: an analysis using real-time magnetic endoscope imaging.


Shah SG, Brooker JC, Thapar C, Williams CB, Saunders BP.
Wolfson Unit for Endoscopy, St. Mark's Hospital, Harrow, London, United Kingdom.

BACKGROUND AND STUDY AIMS: Colonoscopy is generally perceived as being a painful procedure. Contributory factors are: stretching of the colonic wall and mesenteric attachments from looping of the instrument shaft, overinsufflation, the degree of torque or force applied to the colonoscope shaft, and patient pain threshold. The aim of this study was to determine the frequency of pain episodes experienced during diagnostic colonoscopy and the corresponding colonoscope configuration, utilizing real-time magnetic endoscope imaging (MEI).

PATIENTS AND METHODS: Consecutive outpatients undergoing colonoscopy were studied. Patients with previous colonic resections were excluded. Procedures were commenced with antispasmodics only, and patient sedation was self-administered whenever significant discomfort was experienced, using a patient-controlled analgesia (PCA) syringe pump. All "demands" were correlated with the MEI record, which was subsequently analysed.

RESULTS: A total of 650 demands were recorded in 102 patients. Seventy-seven percent of all demands occurred with the colonoscope tip in the sigmoid colon, 7 % in the descending colon, 6 % at the splenic flexure, 5 % in the transverse colon, and 4 % in the proximal colon. Ninety percent of all pain episodes coincided with either looping (79 %) or straightening of the colonoscope shaft (11 %); presumed overinsufflation being an infrequent cause of pain (9 %). Of the loops encountered during colonoscopy, the N-sigmoid spiral loop was associated with the majority of pain episodes (56 %). Looping was both more frequent ( P = 0.0002) and less well tolerated in women than in men ( P = 0.0140).

CONCLUSIONS: This study is the first to document pain at colonoscopy accurately. Looping, particularly in the variable anatomy of the sigmoid colon, is the major cause of pain, especially in women. Use of MEI may improve pain control by facilitating the straightening of loops within the sigmoid colon, and by enabling the endoscopist to target patient analgesia.

PMID: 12048623 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Gastrointest Endosc 1996 Feb;43(2 Pt 1):124-6

Why is colonoscopy more difficult in women?

Saunders BP, Fukumoto M, Halligan S, Jobling C, Moussa ME, Bartram CI, Williams CB.
Department of Endoscopy, St. Mark's Hospital, London, England.

BACKGROUND: In our experience colonoscopy in women is more difficult than in men. A retrospective review of 2194 colonoscopies performed by a single experienced endoscopist (CBW) showed that 31% of examinations in women were considered technically difficult compared with 16% in men.

METHODS: To investigate a possible anatomic basis for this finding, normal barium enema series from 183 female and 162 male patients were identified. From these barium enemas, measurements of colonic length and mobility were independently taken by two physicians who were unaware of each patient's gender.

RESULTS: Total colonic length was greater in women (median, 155 cm) compared to men (median, 145 cm), p = 0.005, despite women's smaller stature (p < 0.0001). Although there were no significant differences in rectum plus sigmoid, descending, or ascending plus cecum segmental lengths, women had longer transverse colons (female median length, 48 cm; male median length, 40 cm), p < 0.0001. There were no differences in mobility of the descending colon and transverse colon between the sexes, but the transverse colon reached the true pelvis more often in women (62%) than in men (26%), p < 0.001.

CONCLUSIONS: Colonoscopy appears to be a technically more difficult procedure in women. The reason for this may be due in part to an inherently longer colon.

PMID: 8635705 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Furor Surrounds Diprivan Use for Colonoscopy

By Michael Smith, MedPage Today Staff Writer
Reviewed by Robert Jasmer, MD; Assistant Professor of Medicine, University of California, San Francisco
December 28, 2005

MedPage Today Action Points

te that the use of Diprivan (propofol) in colonoscopy is increasing, but that some insurers feel the widespread use of the medication is not medically necessary.
Note also that there is controversy between medical societies as to who should be administering the drug.

Review
INDIANAPOLIS, Dec. 28 - Doctors and patients are turning to sedation with Diprivan (propofol) for colonoscopy rather than by narcotics and benzodiazepines, the traditional approach.

Diprivan, administered intravenously, acts more quickly and provides deeper sedation than the traditional methods used to relax patients for a colonoscopy. These are effects that both patients and gastroenterologists like.

But an FDA-mandated need to have a person trained in anesthesiology present is said to add between $250 and $400 to the cost of the procedure. This is something that health insurers don't like.

So the growing popularity of Diprivan appears to be setting medical societies and health insurers against each other.

One major health insurer has said Diprivan is not medically necessary for routine colonoscopies and another may follow suit. The new clinical guidelines, according to WellPoint of Indianapolis, are partly based on a joint statement issued in 2004 by three medical societies whose members perform the procedure.
The American College of Gastroenterology (ACG) -- one of the three societies -- says WellPoint has misinterpreted the joint statement. The college says the choice of anesthetic should be left up to the physician.
The ACG is also asking the FDA to revise the package insert for Diprivan, so that a person trained in anesthesiology won't be required when it is used.
The American Society of Anesthesiologists (ASA) has fired back, charging in a letter to the FDA that the change would compromise patient safety.

Susan Miller, a spokesperson for Aetna of Hartford, Conn., notes that patient safety and quality of care are also part of the equation. Aetna is considering whether to follow WellPoint's lead and declare Diprivan not medically necessary for routine colonoscopies.

Miller said the company is currently consulting with the professional community and will decide its policy in the new year.

The key factor for WellPoint, said spokesperson Laura Stallman, is that most people don't need Diprivan. "For the majority of Americans, conscious sedation is effective and well-tolerated," Stallman said.

"Our clinical guidelines … support general anesthesia as medically necessary," she said.

In accordance with WellPoint's new guidelines, one of its health plans, Blue Cross of California, has already told practitioners it won't pay for Diprivan to be used in routine cases.

Other regional health plans, Stallman said, will decide whether to follow the company's medical guidelines based on local conditions.

WellPoint is the nation's largest health insurer, and Aetna is third largest. The second largest, UnitedHealth Group of Minneapolis, and the fourth largest, Cigna of Philadelphia, both generally cover anesthesiology services during colonoscopies.

WellPoint's move drew fire from the ACG's past president, John Popp, M.D., of Columbia, S.C., who said in a letter to WellPoint CEO Larry Glasscock that the society has "serious concerns" about the decision not to pay for anesthesiologists.

The so-called Tri-Society Statement, approved by the ACG, the American Gastroenterological Association, and the American Society for Gastrointestinal Endoscopy, said a minority of patients must have general anesthesia, but it's not needed routinely.

However, "a significant number of patients will need anesthesiologist monitoring and/or general anesthesia," Dr. Popp wrote. "The treating physician is the appropriate party to make such a determination."

Taking the decision out of the hands of the doctor, Dr. Popp wrote, raises "a legitimate question whether your company may be violating one or more state laws relating to competency and credentialing to practice medicine."

WellPoint's Stallman said company officials are "reaching out" to Dr. Popp to try to clear up any misunderstanding. Dr. Popp was not immediately available for comment.

The ACG has asked the FDA to change the package insert for Diprivan, which says it can be "administered only by persons trained in the administration of general anesthesia and not involved in the conduct of the surgical/diagnostic procedure."

In a letter to the FDA, the ASA responds that such a change would be dangerous.

"ASA and its members strongly believe that the requested change is ill-advised," wrote ASA president Eugene P. Sinclair, M.D., of Milwaukee. "It is not supported by sound clinical data and is not in the best interests of patient safety."

The letters chide the ACG for its focus on the cost of using the drug. Even within the college, the ASA says, "many gastroenterologists who do use anesthesia providers apparently are unwilling to sacrifice patient safety for the sake of incrementally higher profit margins."

The use of Diprivan may be controversial, but the evidence indicates it's going to keep going up.

In a study published earlier this year, 22% of physicians who responded to a Web survey said they routinely use Diprivan for colonoscopy and 43% said they planned to start using it within a year.

"A lot of private practices are interested in using it," said Ashley Faulx, M.D., of University Hospitals of Cleveland, because patients go under and recover more quickly, which may increase patient turnover.

Primary source: Gastrointestinal Endoscopy
Source reference:
Faulx AL et al. The changing landscape of practice patterns regarding unsedated endoscopy and propofol use: a national Web survey. Gastrointest Endosc. 2005 Jul;62(1):9-15.

<http://www.gastro.org/wmspage.cfm?parm1=1552>.

<http://tinyurl.com/auyl9>

<http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgaz ... 742160.htm>
February 26, 2010

FDA Issues Update on Propofol Shortage

On February 24, 2010, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) posted updated information regarding the availability of propofol on its website.

In summary, APP, one of the manufacturers of propofol, is launching an FDA approved generic version of propofol (10 mg/ml injection) that should help alleviate the shortages. With the availability of this new product, importation and distribution of Propoven 1% (propofol 1%) from APP will be suspended. Meanwhile, the other two other manufacturers, Teva and Hospira, are back online and are working to restore availability to meet market demand.

For complete details of this announcement, please visit the FDA’s website at: http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/Pos ... 189684.htm

ASA will continue to work closely with the FDA to ensure that necessary anesthesia drugs remain readily available. If you or your facility are experiencing difficulty obtaining any drug, please contact the FDA’s drug shortage group at drugshortages@fda.hhs.gov.

Re: Sleep Apnea Patient Killed by Colonoscopy

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 5:55 pm
by taberge
Slinky wrote:Fentanyl is NOT a sedative, it is an analgesic. i.e. Versed is a sedative, demeral is an analgesic.
OK.. what the hell did he knock me out with? Maybe I had a spelling issue when writing this name down?
Sounds like fentanyl then or maybe it was combined with fentanyl?