CPAPtalk.com

Ruffinit wrote:jnk - I appreciate your empathy. I do know that I get deep and restful sleep and alway have without the machine. I have never tossed and turned, awakened or felt like a truck ran over me, have never felt the urge to sleep in the evenings while watching a movie until the treatments. Though all my numbers look good (that's the detailed reports also) and according to the docs it's "textbook perfect"; my CSAs are down to less than 8 per night from 32/hr. I feel worn out. Out of energy, and willing (wanting) to pick a fight with anyone who doesn't walk away. I spent 20 years in the service sleeping directly underneath the arresting wires on a Carrier, 5 years in the Special Ops and I still am having the worst sleep of my life. It's like a living nightmare. The only thing that keeps me on this is my family. I now toss and turn all night, I wake up numerous times and because of the aerophagia most mornings are painful or at least uncomfortable. So, there you go. I find that those 30- 60 minutes in the mornings make the days bearable (if I get them). They've given me drugs that are supposed to help me sleep, but it makes the following day FAR worse than without them.

I understanding doing what has to be done, so I don't question the self-assessment. And I know next-to-nothing about your machine. And less than that about central sleep apnea.

If aerophagia is the big thing, it would be nice if it could be titrated away with some limit on upper pressure somehow, if that would allow you all-night use.

Sleep is complicated. So are people. So my only real point is that there is a big difference between "getting REM," and remembering dreams. Don't try to judge your amount of REM or you amount of dreaming by whether or not you remember your dreams.

Please, for the sake of family, friends, motherland, and you, be vocal to a medical team if you think there is something that can be done for improving quality of life with the use of your machine. No need to grunt it out when there may be something that can be done to lessen the hell, if you've already had your share. Sir.

jeff

Jeff, you're secret's out! Busted!

Nord wrote: I'm not sure its' science so much as near science but after reading the "talking points"... maybe I'll understand better.

I honestly don't think the "talking points" even qualify as "near science". Instead I view them as extemporaneous indulgences of what you describe here:

interesting... to wonder why we dream

Sometimes that is the very front-end of science, though... But not this time. To the best of my knowledge no one in that thread executes the scientific method for ANY of the topics informally kicked around in that thread...

...but after reading the "talking points"... maybe I'll understand better.

Well, if it's REALLY science that you're after, then your time might be better spent reading relevant scientific literature published by scientists in any of the relevant fields of study... But good God, man... NEVER waste your time on "talking points" that are nothing more than extemporaneous social indulgences on a CPAP message board!

-SWS wrote:Jeff, . . .

See? It worked again! SUCCESS!!!!

-SWS wrote:Jeff, you're secret's out! Busted!

Nord wrote: I'm not sure its' science so much as near science but after reading the "talking points"... maybe I'll understand better.

I honestly don't think the "talking points" even qualify as "near science". Instead I view them as extemporaneous indulgences of what you describe here:

interesting... to wonder why we dream

Sometimes that is the very front-end of science, though... But not this time. To the best of my knowledge no one in that thread executes the scientific method for ANY of the topics informally kicked around in that thread...

...but after reading the "talking points"... maybe I'll understand better.

Well, if it's REALLY science that you're after, then your time might be better spent reading relevant scientific literature published by scientists in any of the relevant fields of study... But good God, man... NEVER waste your time on "talking points" that are nothing more than extemporaneous social indulgences on a CPAP message board!

Thanks SWS

I think you underestimate talking points... they may be valuable indulgences...

Actually I find talking points are not the "ending" just the "beginning"... its leads me to read much more about a subject that I have little understanding. What I find terrific about this forum is that there are many subjects (talking points) that are considered (perhaps not all are important) and some in great depth. But the fact is... I did not think about them before and even took them for granted. Similar to my undiagnosed (and unacknowledged) condition that I did not give enough consideration before.

Talking points are a valuable starting point for me and I appreciate the sprinkling of links that gets me back to the "science of the day"... and more understanding

Nord

Well. I think I am glad I started this thread, even if it has been done before. I've learned a great deal.

Jeanette

Nord wrote: Actually I find talking points are not the "ending" just the "beginning"...

That's what I meant when I used the term 'front-end": the beginning. But back-end analysis toward understanding and scientific refinement too, as you point out.

Nord wrote: I think you underestimate talking points... they may be valuable indulgences...

I believe "talking points" preceded by conception itself are essential. But since my own "talking points" in that thread are not executed by someone who practices anything whatsoever relevant to that branch of science, they get duly stamped "ENTERTAINMENT VALUE ONLY" by me.

Not to say those "talking points" aren't worthwhile as highly unrefined material or catalyst for people who are cultivating their own beginning-point ideas and opinions... Dreams are a great topic of discussion IMHO, Jeanette.

-SWS wrote:since my own "talking points" in that thread are not executed by someone who practices anything whatsoever relevant to that branch of science, they get duly stamped "ENTERTAINMENT VALUE ONLY" by me.

I need to remember to stamp mine that way! 'Cause other than being very interested in anything to do with "sleep", I'm no part of anything in that field.

-SWS, your "talking points", your musings, your thoughts... well, you already know how much I respect the way you think.

-SWS wrote: I believe "talking points" preceded by conception itself are essential. But since my own "talking points" in that thread are not executed by someone who practices anything whatsoever relevant to that branch of science, they get duly stamped "ENTERTAINMENT VALUE ONLY" by me.

Not to say those "talking points" aren't worthwhile as highly unrefined material or catalyst for people who are cultivating their own beginning-point ideas and opinions... Dreams are a great topic of discussion IMHO, Jeanette.

Hi Jeanette

I hope that everyone in this forum is here for the same reasons... I am both entertained and have been inspired to think about things that I haven't thought about before or it has been a very long time...

If there are scientists, medical professionals or others who consider this their primary field then I would hope that they put forward their opinions for consideration when they feel called upon. But, generally I consider most of us to be "in the same boat" of trying to understand some very simple or very complex issues that we don't have enough information or understanding about. And we've found others here, including yourself who have more experience, a differing opinion, an "atta boy" or even some substantiation of our own thoughts.

I consider this journey to be part of the "healing" process. In short I consider these topics to be "ENTERTAINING" as well as very important beyond getting "scientific answers". Don't sell yourself short... there is more to the "answers" than science.

I can honestly say that I didn't even give dreams much of a thought... until I began this process and started reading these threads.

IMHO I think that dreams are a great topic of discussion for more than their scientific value... I AM entertained...

Nord

Sometimes great learning is to be had at the city gates from those outside the field under discussion.

It is the experience of many years of interacting with and helping those getting treatment for sleep disorders that, to my mind, seems to have given some posters here a uniquely lucid vantage point.

I have benefited greatly.

It seems trite to say again, but MANY thanks to the many posters here who take the time to discuss their interests for the benefit of us all--professional and patient alike.

jeff