CPAPtalk.com

Here we go again. For some reason misinformation is rampant.
The CNN article is accurate- as far as it goes!
There is NO analogy in the cold air room humidifiers or cooling towers and the PAP humidifiers.

The legioneers and other infections are spread by DROPLETS that escape whole and then inhaled.
Warm air and passive add humidify by evaporation and is water vapor, not droplets.
Also, there is no nutritive environment for bugs to proliferate in a humidifier chamber- no nutrients.

If by chance pathogens are introduced into the air supply and somehow gets thru the filter and goes thru as droplets, then there is a potential for a problem, but no greater than breathing the air before it enters the intake.
If the pathogens happen to drop into the tank and it is ingested, then there is a possibility of transmission.
No Pathogens may come from being in the water. If you fill the tank full of all kinds of bugs, there is no way for them to hitch a ride on the water vapor.

This is well and fully explained on one of the mfg sites. I cannot remember off hand.
PM me and I wil try to better explain if anyone is interested.
Uninformed flaming serves no purpose.

I am a top the tank and clean once a week kinda guy. I encourage readers to do what makes them feel more comfortable

Just to add more crunk to the discussion... I wonder what is actually worse to breath 4 day old humidifier water that is diluted with fresh water every day or the steam in the bathroom when you take a shower

Frostman wrote:

Will, you are making me think. What if we boiled it first, would't that make it sterile???

Sure, it would make the water sterile. But... are you putting the water into a sterile container, using a sterile funnel, and capping it with a sterile cap, etc., etc., etc.
Crazy-making, no? I don't think the water would stay sterile for long once it hits our non-sterile humidifier chamber.

Personally, I don't think we need sterile water. Also, remember that sterile water is not necessarily demineralized. I guess you could buy demineralized water and steralize it but sheesh!! I'm tired already just from thinking of all this work.

Our body protects us from lots of the normal nasty stuff floating around in the air and water. I don't think that we need sterile water in the humidifier tank as much as we need to properly manage the demineralized water.

Leaving water sitting around in a open tank is, to me, a bad idea as it invites things to grow that our body can't necessarily deal with. The process of simply topping up the tank daily does NOTHING to inhibit growth of a nasty that might be there whereas dumping the water and letting the tank go dry DOES do something to inhibit growth.

Again, this is a process that has to make sense to the user and each of us needs to find a system that works and satisfies our safety needs. For me, it just plain makes sense to dump the unused water, let the tank go dry, and put in an appropriate amount of fresh distilled before I go to bed. Weekly, I squirt in some unscented dish soap, give it a good shake and rinse, rinse, rinse.
This regime is not hard, does not take more than a moment, and, if you only put in what is needed each night, is not wasteful. My health is worth this much effort.

That's the great thing about Internet forums, you can examine any issue from any number of angles and perspectives and come up with your own decisions. It's a great way to diffuse conflicts of interest, as in the example of manufacturers simply wanting to sell more stuff.

crazyone wrote:Isn't it strange that we live in one of the most Humid states, yet we use almost all of the water in our humidifiers every night? I was getting ready to ask if that was normal, then saw you post. Guess maybe it is - I just don't understand it.

I pondered that ("Quiet Pinky, I'm pondering!") and came to the conclusion that the air conditioning which I'm still running 24x7 reduces the relative humidity to the point where I'm going through a lot of humidifer water.

Pinky: What are we going to do tonight, Brain?
Brain: Same thing we do every night Pinky; try to inflate our lungs.
Pinky: NARF!

Brain: Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?
Pinky: Uh, I think so, Brain, but where will we find a mask and a hose at this hour? .

Most distilled water is distilled via steam distillation. If it's steam, it's boiling and therefore sterile (at least till it cools to below 150 degrees)

tomjax wrote:

Uninformed flaming serves no purpose.

Not sure what this means... I'm thinking that flaming refers to fighting/bashing. Yes? No?

What I have read in this forum is people sharing opinion. None of it read as fighting/bashing (flaming?) to me, just opinion. I think that all of these opinions do serve a purpose as they give folk stuff to think about and contribute to decision-making that ultimately, each of us has to do for the other.
While I don't agree with/like some of the opinions that others have posted, I'm still interested to see them posted (as long as they are respectful) as they are all 'grist for the mill.'

I think he just does not want people jumping his case teling him he is wrong. While a agree with his feelings on this humifier discussion, I also agree that a good, friendly, debate on these things is good and healthy. I learn stuff everydays as well on this sight.

And speaking of learning something. this must be true I read it on the internet:
Every bird and mammal except the spiny anteater experiences REM (rapid eye movement) sleep.

rock and roll wrote:I think he just does not want people jumping his case teling him he is wrong. While a agree with his feelings on this humifier discussion, I also agree that a good, friendly, debate on these things is good and healthy. I learn stuff everydays as well on this sight.

You are correct R/R good friendly debates are helpful.
You are very wrong in that I do not want to be told if I am wrong. I learn much more when I realize I am wrong. Reason, not flaming is the key.
It is not my FEELINGS i am expressing on the humidifier topic. It is established FACT.
I recently had a major paradigm shift on my assertion that science is deductive reason driven and later realized and agreed inductive reasoning process were the real reason for scientific advances. I had a major thought process and logic failure.
But debates are on opinion, attitudes, ideas, beliefs.
Each can have and express an opinion while there is no correct answer.
The difference is when a person atacks facts and questions established elementary principles of physics and science. These are established with limitations.
When I point out such, it is not opinion. not even my opinion.

It is like a faith based belief system. No amt of faith, no matter how strong will ever change the fact that it is still and will always remain a belief.
It is one thing to challenge a persons opinion, another to argue facts.

But what the hell do I know?

Well then I must be breathing contaminates every night before bed. I purposely revamped my show into a virtual steam room by Enclosing fully with tile from floor to ceiling and a glass door with only 8 inches open at the top. I also installed body jets in the wall that have a mist setting so I can turn the water as hot as it will go and sit on the floor of the shower with the misters going above me. I do this every night before bed to open up my sinuses and prep for cpap. Works for me! Luckily I have a maid come weekly that thoroughly cleans it for me (Hopefully). I wonder how much mold (the kind you can't see) is there by the end of the week.

So on that note, I pretty much do the same with my humidifier container. It pretty much empties itself every night, but I rinse it with hot-hot water before filling it up nightly for cpap. I wash it out once a week.

Now that sounds like a real nice shower. Might be a real bear to clean too. My maid (me) wouldn't like that one bit. But it does sound like you have a great way to relax before "hooking up". The heated humidifier seems to help my head to stay unstuffed at night. This CPAP thing is just a win win situation.
There could be worse things wrong with us.

crazyone, great shower! I'll be right over. (I'll even bring my own towel.)

So what I'm taking away from this fascinating discussion is that we (probably, maybe) don't have to worry about things growing in the humidifier chamber, at least in any timeframe measured in days. Topping up one day to the next is (likely) just fine, although emptying and drying it once in a while wouldn't be a bad idea.

At the other extreme, measuring out no more water than you expect to need, dumping any remaining and letting it dry every day isn't a bad thing and can't hurt. Whether it helps (make the air cleaner/safer/more sanitary) isn't certain and maybe (probably) isn't necessary.

I think I'll continue doing what I'm doing. Most mornings I empty what is left. Occasionally I'm rushed or distracted and just top up. When that happens I don't worry about it. I don't think I've ever gone more than 3 or 4 days without emptying and drying.

It can't hurt.

Well, my husband wouldn't let me build an actual steam room...Wahhh, so I had to do something. (I think I'm spoiled) It was a B*t*h to build though (excuse my french), especially the tile ceiling. Weird, my husband is a foreman, yet I do most of the renovations.

Bill, I'll let you use my shower if you have a boat I can borrow

Okay we're way off topic.