CPAPtalk.com

I swear you people are the best. I'm proud to be among you.

Muse, I was thinking about resources for identifying and low-ness or high-ness of the carb content of different foods. You have those nifty numbers beside the things I said I ate. Where did you learn THOSE numbers? (Surely not at your mama's knee...) Or put another way, how am I going to learn to eat like this? Totally serious question. I know how to cook (boy, do I). But I don't know how to eat...?

Babette: You are just about the sweetest person alive and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your generous PM and outpouring here. I'm going to get weepy.

The 'bible' so to speak is Coninne T. Netzer's The Complete Book of Food Counts which reports calories, carbs, protein, fiber, sodium, fat and cholesterol. I get a new one (mass market paperback size) every so often as new foods are added. There are online websites; I've used this one http://caloriecount.about.com/calories- ... hes-ic2200

Babette wrote:

Catnap wrote: Secondly, I'm not Joanie -- I'm Jo Ann.

AACK! Sorry JoAnn and Joanie!!! I'm nearsighted. I couldn't tell you apart on the computer!

Did you watch it yet? What do you think?

Cheers,
B.

I saw it. If you are the emotional type, you are likely to cry as parts of it are a bit sad.

For me, it reinforced my already established views that the calories in vs. calories out model is way too simplistic and useless for weight loss.

MoneyGal wrote:Maybe I just have to get my calorie consumption down to a really, really, really low level. I don't know. I can't add a lot of exercise right now because of my knee limitations.

Eating less calories is great, especially if you're talking about eating less empty calories (like my favorites - sugary, starchy junk food), but beware of modifying your diet to the point that you have hardly any calories. To stimulate your metabolism, you want to eat enough calories that your body doesn't start "budgeting" and saving up or stockpiling reserves (but good calories, whole foods like you described, lots of fiber, greens). You also want to incorporate enough exercise in (as much as is reasonable in your situation) so that it too can stimulate your metabolism. As I said before, the whole "sugar-busters" or "glycemic index" methods have produced a lot of positive results, and there is a lot of sound scientific data to support it. Cutting out those "whites" and exercising, while still getting enough good calories/food, has been beneficial for me I know. Atkins is ok, but the "Sugar-Busters" doesn't go overboard with only having 20 carbs a day. You need carbs for energy TO exercise (I usually have a bowl of oatmeal or a banana before a workout). Sugar-Busters just identifies which sugars are going to elevate your blood sugar, insulin, and calorie-retention. The only fruits I remember them halfway recommending against were something like pineapple, watermelon, and some other one that is super-sugary and can act almost like a junk-food sugar with your insulin levels.

To use your comparison of handling finances, you want to turn it completely around 180 degrees. What you are wanting to do is spend so much (exercise) and save so little (excessive or bad eating) that you never have anything left in your account (body fat). I actually heard it put that way in some weight-loss info within the past few years.

Best wishes and ... to quote Rob Schneider (of "Waterboy") ... "You can DO it!" (with a Cajun accent of course)

In August I started seeing a therapist about the fact I was eating emotionally. All my life I have been skinny (except for the boobs) and in the last 4 years I went from 120 to 160. Mostly from eating late at night due to anxieties. After starting cpap I still couldn't get it under control.

It seemed like such a simple thing to change - I am used to using hypnotherapy style stuff for pain relief so this shouldn't have been a big deal right? Wrong. We have gone through so many issues it is amazing. But still nibbling.....

Then I got a high cholesterol count and I started that other thread. This week has been different, I have hardly nibbled at night. I am being very aware of my food intake. I haven't made many changes yet. Getting to the Gym has also been an issue this week. It was like I needed that emotional kick somehow. My eldest daughter was the same, 6 weeks ago she was told by her spine doctor to reduce her weight or else her spinal injuries were going to come back and haunt her big time. It was an emotional wake up call and she has been working out and eating healthier (low carb) ever since. She is also losing weight.

I don't know about anyone else but keeping a food journal really sucks. I tried it and wouldn't write things down because I would get upset about it. I was allowed to have certain things but only a tast of certain things and when I would look at the journal later it would actually make me upset so I don't do one.

Like Muse-Inc and others here, I am a strong believer in the low carb diet thing, and it works for me very well. My biggest problems are 1.) I do not like most fruits or vegetables, and the ones I do like are the least good for you (OTOH, if it came from inside an animal, I generally like it, and can eat it morning, noon and night), and 2.) I have an absolutely terrible sweet tooth, and 3.) life gets in the way. Another negative factor is I am a protein type, and I have a big frame, and protein type people usually have very strong hunger drives. (This may be an adaption to encourage one to go hunting!)

When settled onto the diet, my meal plan is pretty simple: Breakfast is about a pound of breakfast-type sausage. No lunch, or else a slab of beef jerky. Dinner is a whole chicken or 1-2 pounds of beef. I will also have large gauge sausages sometimes, especially if I have to work late. This is supplemented with a good multivitamin once a day, 2 grams of calcium (with magnesium and zinc) in 2 doses, 1 gram of vitamin C in 2 doses, and psyllium husk capsules (2-3) with each meal.

One good thing about a properly designed low carb diet is you eat until you are full. This takes care of the hunger problem that kills many diets. (If you are hungry, have another steak!) When your carb intake is low enough to go into ketosis (which this regimin is), your carb cravings disappear in a few days as well. When you have lost enough weight, you simply add back enough carbs to keep you out of ketosis (but you will have to fight carb-cravings). For me, this might be a cup of corn with dinner. So, low carb is intended to be a lifestyle as well as a diet.

Desipte all the meat, this diet doesn't cost more than a varied diet. And meat is very simple to prepare.

Despite all the fat and cholesterol, most people's fat and cholesterol numbers improve, often dramatically.

The biggest problem: social life (for me, that is things like attending concerts and shows, amateur radio and astronomy activities). My best friends want any social activity to include going out to eat. It is really hard to find a place to eat that serves food that fits this fairly strict 'carnivore' diet. As a result, when I get around holidays, trips, etc. I usually end up 'breaking' the diet, often for extended periods (like now), and it is super-easy to gain the weight back (especially with a sweet tooth!) This weekend though, I should be going back into 'lion mode', with a good shot at not having a serious disruption until April. Friends are going to have to realize I am not going out to eat every time I do something 'social'.

Bottom line: proteins and fats are essential in your diet. Carbs are not, and you can eat zero carbs for long time periods.

Muse, you've mentioned "seeded rye bread" and I was wondering if that's a better choice than "100% whole wheat" and why? I hope it is because I love rye bread! I came to this forum(thank the Lord) for help with my husband's OSA but never thought I'd find such support for my own personal health issues. You're all amazing!

MoneyGal wrote:Babette: You are just about the sweetest person alive and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your generous PM and outpouring here. I'm going to get weepy.

You're welcome. Big hug.

Sorry to keep singing the same praises, but this tool is FREE, and gives immediate satisfaction: http://www.nutrimirror.com

I can look up foods in their database and see immediately the calories, carbs, vitamins, proteins, fats, etc. Great for meal planning. I can input ingredients and make instant decisions about whether I wanna eat that or not.

I use it as a food and exercise log, track my supplement intake, and also use it to look up food values. Right now I have a homework sheet from BWS where I have to find foods that meet certain criteria, across various categories. Nutrimirror! I plan to sit down with it tonight and knock this out. Way faster than cruising the aisles at the grocery store. And easier to see for my old eyes. Some of those nutritional labels are KILLERS!

Hugs,
B.

MoneyGal wrote: ....I'm not totally sure what a carb is. (Are fruit carbs?)

There are lots of great insights and contributions from readers on this post so far regarding weight loss techniques. Here, I'll limit my comments to addressing the topic of 'Carbs.'

There is unfortunately a great deal of misinformation and confusion associated with the term 'Carbs', within our mainstream media. 'Carbs' refers to the group of foods made mostly of carbohydrates.

Probably the most important thing that should be known about 'Carbs' is that there is a good (healthy) group of 'Carbs', and a bad (unhealthy) group of 'Carbs.'

However, many popular authors, experts, and journalists don't make this distinction at all when they're talking about Carbs, and they lump all carbohydrate-based foods together into one broad category - this is a mistake and it's a disservice to everyone.

Yet, there is an ENTIRE WORLD OF DIFFERENCE between good and bad Carbs.

The simple truth is this:

The Good Carbs are all vegetables, fruits, and whole grains...and we should eat all we can of these.

The Bad Carbs are the refined grains, such as anything made with white flour, as well as white sugar and white rice...and we should eat as little of these as we can.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
More on the topic of "Whole Grains":

Whole grains include 100% whole wheat bread, brown rice, wild rice, oatmeal, and bran cereals. We should strive to eat several servings of these wholesome foods throughout the week, and attempt to replace any "refined grain" products that we may usually eat with a healthy "whole grain" alternative instead, as often as possible.

Non-whole wheat flour is perhaps the most notorious "refined grain." It's typically called simply "wheat flour", or "white flour." Unlike the whole grain foods mentioned above, refined grains have been completely stripped of ALL of their healthy components, including their fiber-rich bran layers and their vitamin-rich germ portion. Refined grains are therefore DEVOID of any nutritional value. That's what the term "refined", or "overly processed," means in this context. Non-whole wheat flour is used to make most common baked goods including white bread, cookies, crackers, cakes, donuts, pancakes, waffles, bagels, muffins, pizza dough, etc.

The typical American diet is largely based on these defibrated carbohydrates. All of these baked goods are examples of “empty calorie” foods which contribute lots of calories without filling you up. These foods are dense sources of calories, and since they don’t have much bulk, you can end up eating a lot just to get a feeling of being full. And as mentioned, they are devoid of nutritional benefit.

Furthermore, refined grain foods like baked goods made from white flour raise the blood sugar (glucose) levels up too high and too fast, and the frequent intake of these products has contributed hugely to our nation's current epidemic of obesity and adult diabetes.

Just like with the topic of 'Carbs' in general, there is also unfortunately a lot of wide-spread misinformation and confusion in our society regarding the topic of 'grains' (which falls within the carbohydrates food group).

I cringe whenever I hear someone, such as a health authority, nutrition expert, or newscaster, refer to the "grains" group when discussing dietary advice, without also simultaneously specifying whether they're referring to 'whole grains' or 'refined grains.' There's a WORLD of difference between them.

You'll often hear non-specific phrases like "be sure to eat 6 servings from the grains group each day, " or, alternatively, you'll hear somebody say "you should cut back on your grains intake because they're high in Carbs"…these statements are silly and misleading since they make no distinction at all between 'whole' grains and 'refined' grains.

The plain and simple truth is this:

All whole grains are HEALTHY for us, and we can feel free to eat as much of these as we care to.

Whereas all refined grain products are very UNHEALTHY for everyone, and we should minimize our intake of these whenever possible.

I put together an extensive handout on all of the most valuable nutrition-related advice I know of, including important information concerning fats and proteins. It's in the form of a free pdf document that's available at this link:

http://unleashyourinnerstrength.files.w ... health.pdf

I sincerely wish you the best of success on your quest for a healthier and fit body and life.

DoriC wrote:Muse, you've mentioned "seeded rye bread" and I was wondering if that's a better choice than "100% whole wheat" and why? I hope it is because I love rye bread! I came to this forum(thank the Lord) for help with my husband's OSA but never thought I'd find such support for my own personal health issues. You're all amazing!

Rye seeds are a natural, whole food, and in general are healthy for us.

Although 'rye bread' contains rye seeds, unfortunately its main ingredient is refined wheat flour - which is not healthy.

If you like rye bread, you should enjoy it on occasion, but realize that the refined wheat flour it contains is not doing your body any favors (to put it mildly).

If you visit a local health food store in your area, you may be able to find a 100% whole grain form of rye bread (in other words, a version of rye bread that's made with 100% whole wheat flour, instead of refined wheat flour, which most rye breads are made from).

Best regards.

Falcon1 wrote:...If you visit a local health food store in your area, you may be able to find a 100% whole grain form of rye bread (in other words, a version of rye bread that's made with 100% whole wheat flour, instead of refined wheat flour, which most rye breads are made from).

Or, better yet, see if you can find an 'old world' (sometimes called European) style bakery that bakes a sourdough seeded whole rye or pumpernickel bread. The sourdough process breaks down the phytates that cause much gut inflammation. Sometimes a bakery will bake this order so it's worth asking; we've frozen this after slicing and it makes it thru the process OK esp if it's toasted. BTW, when subbed for white bread crumbs, it makes tasty meatballs! Yrs ago I made this bread several times...waaay too much work for me . And, now, losing wt, it's offlimits 'cept for very rare occasions when planned in advance understanding that it's an indulgence and a less healthy carb.

Falcon1 wrote:

MoneyGal wrote: ....I'm not totally sure what a carb is. (Are fruit carbs?)

There are lots of great insights and contributions from readers on this post so far regarding weight loss techniques. Here, I'll limit my comments to addressing the topic of 'Carbs.'

There is unfortunately a great deal of misinformation and confusion associated with the term 'Carbs', within our mainstream media. 'Carbs' refers to the group of foods made mostly of carbohydrates.

Probably the most important thing that should be known about 'Carbs' is that there is a good (healthy) group of 'Carbs', and a bad (unhealthy) group of 'Carbs.'

However, many popular authors, experts, and journalists don't make this distinction at all when they're talking about Carbs, and they lump all carbohydrate-based foods together into one broad category - this is a mistake and it's a disservice to everyone.

Yet, there is an ENTIRE WORLD OF DIFFERENCE between good and bad Carbs.

The simple truth is this:

The Good Carbs are all vegetables, fruits, and whole grains...and we should eat all we can of these.

The Bad Carbs are the refined grains, such as anything made with white flour, as well as white sugar and white rice...and we should eat as little of these as we can.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
More on the topic of "Whole Grains":

Whole grains include 100% whole wheat bread, brown rice, wild rice, oatmeal, and bran cereals. We should strive to eat several servings of these wholesome foods throughout the week, and attempt to replace any "refined grain" products that we may usually eat with a healthy "whole grain" alternative instead, as often as possible.

Non-whole wheat flour is perhaps the most notorious "refined grain." It's typically called simply "wheat flour", or "white flour." Unlike the whole grain foods mentioned above, refined grains have been completely stripped of ALL of their healthy components, including their fiber-rich bran layers and their vitamin-rich germ portion. Refined grains are therefore DEVOID of any nutritional value. That's what the term "refined", or "overly processed," means in this context. Non-whole wheat flour is used to make most common baked goods including white bread, cookies, crackers, cakes, donuts, pancakes, waffles, bagels, muffins, pizza dough, etc.

The typical American diet is largely based on these defibrated carbohydrates. All of these baked goods are examples of “empty calorie” foods which contribute lots of calories without filling you up. These foods are dense sources of calories, and since they don’t have much bulk, you can end up eating a lot just to get a feeling of being full. And as mentioned, they are devoid of nutritional benefit.

Furthermore, refined grain foods like baked goods made from white flour raise the blood sugar (glucose) levels up too high and too fast, and the frequent intake of these products has contributed hugely to our nation's current epidemic of obesity and adult diabetes.

Just like with the topic of 'Carbs' in general, there is also unfortunately a lot of wide-spread misinformation and confusion in our society regarding the topic of 'grains' (which falls within the carbohydrates food group).

I cringe whenever I hear someone, such as a health authority, nutrition expert, or newscaster, refer to the "grains" group when discussing dietary advice, without also simultaneously specifying whether they're referring to 'whole grains' or 'refined grains.' There's a WORLD of difference between them.

You'll often hear non-specific phrases like "be sure to eat 6 servings from the grains group each day, " or, alternatively, you'll hear somebody say "you should cut back on your grains intake because they're high in Carbs"…these statements are silly and misleading since they make no distinction at all between 'whole' grains and 'refined' grains.

The plain and simple truth is this:

All whole grains are HEALTHY for us, and we can feel free to eat as much of these as we care to.

Whereas all refined grain products are very UNHEALTHY for everyone, and we should minimize our intake of these whenever possible.

I put together an extensive handout on all of the most valuable nutrition-related advice I know of, including important information concerning fats and proteins. It's in the form of a free pdf document that's available at this link:

http://unleashyourinnerstrength.files.w ... health.pdf

I sincerely wish you the best of success on your quest for a healthier and fit body and life.

With all due respect Dr. Falcon, I cringe when people try and make a distinction between whole grain and processed grains. Don't all carbohydrates turn into the same substance of glucose once they are in the blood system? Isn't glucose from whole grains the same as glucose from refined grains? True, refined grains become glucose within our blood system faster than whole grains but does it not take the same amount of insulin to process 1 gram of glucose from whole grains as it does to process 1 gram of glucose from refined grains once in the blood system? In other words, plotting a curve of insulin response to glucose from whole grains and also of the insulin response to glucose from refined grains may have different shapes but won't they still have the same area under the curves given that the amounts from each type of carbohydrate are the same?

Also, your handout mentions that whole grains have nutrients such as vitamins and fiber which makes them a healthy choice. What vitamins and fiber can one get from whole grains that one cannot get from the excellent list of vegetables under your first pillar of health? Don't vegetables provide as much and quite likely more of these nutrients than grains? It seems to me that the only nutrient that vegetables do not provide and grains do is a higher level of insulin inducing carbohydrate (which is actually not an essential dietary nutrient). When trying to loose weight, isn't it best to maintain the lowest possible level insulin in order to allow lipids to be removed from one's fat cells?

Again, why would we need grains, or any other starchy carbohydrate with such low nutrient density when there are so many vegetables to choose from with a much higher nutrient density? Then there is the issue of gluten and grains and the damage it may do to compromise our immune system, often unnoticed just as sleep apnea has gone unnoticed for many of us prior to OSA diagnosis.

Under your third pillar, you have in bold font stated the dangers of animal fat. This hypothesis has been disproved and in fact there is another recent study published just yesterday that again disproves it here.

Again in your fourth pillar, animal fats are to be minimized. I would agree to minimize animal fats not sourced from humanely treated organic grass-fed or free-ranged animals. But to lump them all together as bad for health makes me cringe just as “misinformation” about grains makes you cringe. You also leave out the very healthy medium chain triglyceride oils of coconut and palm oils which have been shown to raise HDL and lower small dense subtype LDL. And you did not mention that omega 6 fats are inflammatory and should be limited as much as possible.

While I do agree with the items in your garbage dumpster, more needs to go in there.

Otherwise, your handout is a good start despite being a bit outdated on some topics.

DreamStalker wrote:... With all due respect Dr. Falcon, I cringe when people try and make a distinction between whole grain and processed grains. Don't all carbohydrates turn into the same substance of glucose once they are in the blood system? Isn't glucose from whole grains the same as glucose from refined grains? True, refined grains become glucose within our blood system faster than whole grains but does it not take the same amount of insulin to process 1 gram of glucose from whole grains as it does to process 1 gram of glucose from refined grains once in the blood system? ...

DreamStalker, as someone who brought his A1c value form 13.4 (very dangerously high) down to 6.4 to 6.8, I can assure you that whole grains do not cause near the high blood sugar spikes as refined grains. Using similar portions, I can have whole grain bread or pasta without the increase I see with products that use refined flour.

From my reading there are a couple reasons why this seems to occur.

First, it does take longer for the body to process the whole grains. However, the uptake of the glucose does not occur equally in the intestines. From what I understand most of the uptake appears to occur early in the intestines. The longer it takes to convert the food to glucose the more chance the body will not convert the carbohydrate to glucose and have it show up in the blood stream. In fact, from my reading it appears a gastric bypass seems to cure Type 2 Diabetes by significantly reducing the uptake of glucose. I might be wrong, that I've read several articles that seem to tie together this way.

Second (though related), processing the flour makes more of the carbohydrate readily available to the body. This refinement makes it easier for the body to more quickly convert the carbohydrate to glucose and then absorb it.

So, refinement seems to make it easier for the body to liberate the carbohydrate from the food. That allows the body to quickly convert the carbs to glucose. And that allows the body to uptate the glucose.

That's just my perspective, but it really seems to work that way for me.

JohnBFisher wrote:

DreamStalker wrote:... With all due respect Dr. Falcon, I cringe when people try and make a distinction between whole grain and processed grains. Don't all carbohydrates turn into the same substance of glucose once they are in the blood system? Isn't glucose from whole grains the same as glucose from refined grains? True, refined grains become glucose within our blood system faster than whole grains but does it not take the same amount of insulin to process 1 gram of glucose from whole grains as it does to process 1 gram of glucose from refined grains once in the blood system? ...

DreamStalker, as someone who brought his A1c value form 13.4 (very dangerously high) down to 6.4 to 6.8, I can assure you that whole grains do not cause near the high blood sugar spikes as refined grains. Using similar portions, I can have whole grain bread or pasta without the increase I see with products that use refined flour.

From my reading there are a couple reasons why this seems to occur.

First, it does take longer for the body to process the whole grains. However, the uptake of the glucose does not occur equally in the intestines. From what I understand most of the uptake appears to occur early in the intestines. The longer it takes to convert the food to glucose the more chance the body will not convert the carbohydrate to glucose and have it show up in the blood stream. In fact, from my reading it appears a gastric bypass seems to cure Type 2 Diabetes by significantly reducing the uptake of glucose. I might be wrong, that I've read several articles that seem to tie together this way.

Second (though related), processing the flour makes more of the carbohydrate readily available to the body. This refinement makes it easier for the body to more quickly convert the carbohydrate to glucose and then absorb it.

So, refinement seems to make it easier for the body to liberate the carbohydrate from the food. That allows the body to quickly convert the carbs to glucose. And that allows the body to uptate the glucose.

That's just my perspective, but it really seems to work that way for me.

John I do realize that the spike of a refined carb is greater than that of whole grains. The point I am making is that while the refined carbs produce a bigger spike, it also has a shorter duration and while the whole grain has a smaller spike, it has a longer duration. Gram for gram however, regardless of whether glucose originated from refined or whole grain carbs, the amount of insulin needed to deal with the blood glucose is the same and only the duration of dealing with it is different.

As this regards to diabetics, the type of spike is important (since diabetics have to estimate amount and timing of insulin injections ... smaller longer duration spike is much easier to deal with) but as it relates to losing weight, type of spike is not important. Instead, it is the total volume of glucose, hence total amount of carbs that determines just how much insulin is needed (duration is irrelevant). Less insulin = more fat released from fat cells. More insulin = less fat released from fat cells.

I would urge you once again to get a copy of "Dr. Berstein's Diabetes Solution" as he provides a great easy to understand discussion on this subject as well as others important to diabetics.

The reason gastric bypass reduces glucose is because it does indeed have less time in digestive track to convert carbs to glucose. But if someone has gastric bypass, they really don't need to cut carbs because the bypass is doing it for them. Why not make your own bypass by eliminating the carbs in the first place?