Page 1 of 1

Autoset II Changing from APAP to CPAP

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:18 pm
by Swim_Bike_Run
My original prescription was for a CPAP machine and I am fairly certain my magic pressure number during my titration was 10. I called my doc back and asked for the Autoset II they said ok so they re-wrote the prescription for the Resmed autoset with pressure from 5-15. After 9 nights I am avg abiout 7.5. AHI was 28 during first sleep study. First few nights AHI was between 3.5 and 5.5. LAst couple nights have been little more difficult to stay asleep so it was recommended to change my auto to CPAP, perhaps lower my settling (ramp) and put the pressure at 9. I think I can handle this, but am not sure how to do this.

Am I able to change the settings from Auto to CPAP my self?
Does it sound safe to do this?

Thanks in advance.

Brian

Re: Autoset II Changing from APAP to CPAP

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:42 pm
by Swim_Bike_Run
I figured out how to navigate through the clinical menu and changed the settings to CPAP mode from Auto mode. In the Auto mode, my settings were 5-15. I have put it in CPAP mode with starting pressure of 6 and CPAP of 9.0. I also will reduce my ramp to 5 minutes and keep my EPR at 2. So -

First 9 nights:

AUTO MODE - Pressure 5-15
EPR - 2
Settling - 15 mins
Mask - Swift LT Nasal Pillows ....unchanged.

Tonight:
CPAP MODE
Starting Pressure (I assume ramp pressure) - 6.0
CPAP Pressure - 9.0
EPR - 2 (unchanged)
Ramp - 5 minutes (down from 15)



Does this sound ok? I think it does as I am still within my Auto rage (5-15) and actually a little below my titration magic # - 10.


Should these changes make any difference for me tonight?

Brian
Mask - same

Re: Autoset II Changing from APAP to CPAP

Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:01 am
by Muse-Inc
If I was doing this, I'd start with my titrated pressure, then ck numbers for a few days before changing again.

Re: Autoset II Changing from APAP to CPAP

Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:35 am
by DreamOn
I agree with Muse to start at your titrated pressure, which is presumably 10. I would wait a full week before changing the pressure again. Results numbers can vary from day to day, and there shouldn't be any big rush.

Just so you understand....with an EPR of 2, if you set your pressure to 10 then that is your inhale pressure. Your exhale pressure will be 8 (10 minus 2). So your overall average pressure during the entire night will be somewhere in the middle, between 8 and 10.

Keep track of results, including leak rates, and let us know how it goes for you.

~ DreamOn

Re: Autoset II Changing from APAP to CPAP

Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:37 am
by billbolton
Swim_Bike_Run wrote: CPAP of 9.0.
If you were titrated for 10cm H20, that's what you should be setting the pressure at.

Cheers,

Bill

Re: Autoset II Changing from APAP to CPAP

Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:00 pm
by Swim_Bike_Run
Well, that officially sucked. Not sure why, but I just had trouble exhaling all night. Tossed and turned, woke up often and felt like mask was constantly leaking. I did not get a chance to make the adjustments mentioned on here, but I can only imagine that they might have been just as difficult, given the recommended titration pressure (10) was even higher than I was going to have it at (9.0). Here is a recap:

Went to bed at 12:30AM ish.

Used CPAP Mode with pressure of 9.0
Starting pressure of 6.0
Ramp - 5 minutes
ERP - 2 (unchanged from previous 5-6 nights)

Review from the night - trouble falling asleep, felt like I was a but clogged up but not 100% certain since I never took the mask off. Felt like I could not really exhale at all and constantly found myself opening my mouth to get a full exhalation or full breath of air. A little frustrating. Woke up many times to fidget with nose pillows. I use the small size and at times they seal fine and feel ok and other times they don't. Not sure why. I do have the Softgel nasal mask coming on Monday so I am anxious to give that a try.

Woke up about 7 AM feeling awful. Figured I had made it 7 hours (whether I slept much or not) with mask on, so I took it off and set it on table and went back to sleep. Slept ok for 3-3.5 more hours and work up about 10:30 AM. Laid there for half hour talking with wife, who is pregnant, so there is lots to talk about. Checked and recorded my numbers for the night. Here they are:

Under Clinical Efficiency Results from MACHINE (not resscan software - that does not arrive until Monday):
PRESS: No Data
Leak: .36L/s
AHI: 12.5
AI: 2.8
HI: 9.7

Smart Data:
Mask Fit: excellent
Pressure: 7.6
Usage: 5.5 hours (not sure what this means - since I had mask on for almost 7 hours)


I am still learning how to interpret data although I know the "technical" definitions of AHI, AI & HI. This was night # 10 for me overall. First 7 nights were avg between 3.5 AHI - 5.6 AHI. The next two nights were 7.5 and 8.6 respectively and then last night was 12.5 so I am clearly on the wrong way down a one-way street. Need to get this trolly turned around. Since I hade a slight increase in AHI on nights 8 & 9, I thought changing to CPAP from Auto might help but clearly it did not.

Overall - feel like crap. Groggy, with a little headache and not rested at all, especially given the fact that I was in bed for almost 11 hours. Nose was clogged so I did the neti pot this morning and that helped a bit, but I still have a major fog and grogginess going on. Not looking forward to today, feeling hazy all day that is.

Does anyone have any thoughts on what the results are indicating? I can understand the leakage part and that needs to be addressed, but I am not versed enough to know why my AHI jumped so much and really the true difference between AI and HI and how to understand their numbers relative to how I feel. My HI is much higher than normal...what does this mean exactly? I definitely think I should switch back to Auto Mode (5-15) ..those were the settings for first 9 nights. I just did not know why I had decent numbers for first 6 nights then had two nights that worse a little worse.


Thanks in advance....Happy New Year!

Brian

Re: Autoset II Changing from APAP to CPAP

Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:43 pm
by DreamOn
Swim_Bike_Run wrote:Well, that officially sucked. Not sure why, but I just had trouble exhaling all night. Tossed and turned, woke up often and felt like mask was constantly leaking. I did not get a chance to make the adjustments mentioned on here, but I can only imagine that they might have been just as difficult, given the recommended titration pressure (10) was even higher than I was going to have it at (9.0). Here is a recap:

Went to bed at 12:30AM ish.

Used CPAP Mode with pressure of 9.0
Starting pressure of 6.0
Ramp - 5 minutes
ERP - 2 (unchanged from previous 5-6 nights)

Review from the night - trouble falling asleep, felt like I was a but clogged up but not 100% certain since I never took the mask off. Felt like I could not really exhale at all and constantly found myself opening my mouth to get a full exhalation or full breath of air. A little frustrating. Woke up many times to fidget with nose pillows. I use the small size and at times they seal fine and feel ok and other times they don't. Not sure why. I do have the Softgel nasal mask coming on Monday so I am anxious to give that a try.

Woke up about 7 AM feeling awful. Figured I had made it 7 hours (whether I slept much or not) with mask on, so I took it off and set it on table and went back to sleep. Slept ok for 3-3.5 more hours and work up about 10:30 AM. Laid there for half hour talking with wife, who is pregnant, so there is lots to talk about. Checked and recorded my numbers for the night. Here they are:

Under Clinical Efficiency Results from MACHINE (not resscan software - that does not arrive until Monday):
PRESS: No Data
Leak: .36L/s
AHI: 12.5
AI: 2.8
HI: 9.7

Smart Data:
Mask Fit: excellent
Pressure: 7.6
Usage: 5.5 hours (not sure what this means - since I had mask on for almost 7 hours)


I am still learning how to interpret data although I know the "technical" definitions of AHI, AI & HI. This was night # 10 for me overall. First 7 nights were avg between 3.5 AHI - 5.6 AHI. The next two nights were 7.5 and 8.6 respectively and then last night was 12.5 so I am clearly on the wrong way down a one-way street. Need to get this trolly turned around. Since I hade a slight increase in AHI on nights 8 & 9, I thought changing to CPAP from Auto might help but clearly it did not.

Overall - feel like crap. Groggy, with a little headache and not rested at all, especially given the fact that I was in bed for almost 11 hours. Nose was clogged so I did the neti pot this morning and that helped a bit, but I still have a major fog and grogginess going on. Not looking forward to today, feeling hazy all day that is.

Does anyone have any thoughts on what the results are indicating? I can understand the leakage part and that needs to be addressed, but I am not versed enough to know why my AHI jumped so much and really the true difference between AI and HI and how to understand their numbers relative to how I feel. My HI is much higher than normal...what does this mean exactly? I definitely think I should switch back to Auto Mode (5-15) ..those were the settings for first 9 nights. I just did not know why I had decent numbers for first 6 nights then had two nights that worse a little worse.


Thanks in advance....Happy New Year!

Brian
Hi Brian,

First, we all have "bad nights", even on CPAP -- sometimes for no discernible reason at all. So, you can't really judge changes after only a night or two. Since last night was New Years Eve, maybe you had a few drinks? That can affect our breathing.

We have discussed the leaks, and the fact that they could be coming from the mask itself, your mouth, or both. So that is something to troubleshoot, as your leak numbers are near the leak threshold. Excessive leaks will affect your other numbers (AHI, AI, HI). And you'll feel lousy. You may have the wrong size of nasal pillows, your headgear may need further adjustment, you may need to use the "lab rat fixes", or perhaps you need a different style or brand of mask. Most DMEs allow you to exchange masks within 30 days or so, so you may want to consider trying something else. And you may want to try a chinstrap and/or mouth taping (instructions on this forum elsewhere) to make sure therapy air isn't escaping from your mouth, especially when you're deep asleep and may not realize it's happening.

Also, check that you have the correct mask name in your APAP machine. It should say "Swift". If that's wrong, it can affect the leak rate number.

AHI (hourly apnea-hyponea index) is made up of AI (hourly apnea index) and HI (hourly hypopnea index). It's the AI that matters the most, as that's closure of your airway (greater than 75% decrease in ventilation). The apneas can cause your oxygen levels to decrease, so you want that number as close to zero as possible. Hypopneas are partial airway closures (a 50 to 75% drop in ventilation). With the ResMed machines, an HI under 10 is okay, as they are said to "overscore" hypopneas.

I think once you get the leaks figured out, your numbers will look better. And you should feel better too.

But, for comfort, this is what I'd try:

CPAP Mode with pressure of 10.0 (increased from 9.0)
Starting ramp pressure of 7.0 (increased from 6.0, as sometimes it's more difficult to breathe at lower pressures)
Ramp - 20-30 minutes (from 5 minutes - this way, pressure increases more gradually and you're more likely to be asleep when it reaches full pressure of 10)
EPR - 2 (you can keep this the same for now)

Also, check the Exhale setting. Their are two choices: Med or Fast. I'd choose Medium, but everyone's different. Consider your humidifier settings too. Give yourself a few days to adjust to the changes.

It's also very common to concentrate on your breathing too much in the beginning. I think sometimes that causes some hyperventilation, and probably rebreathing of carbon dioxide. So try to relax (easy to say, I know). Maybe put on some soothing music or nature sound CDs. Or read with your mask on to distract yourself. I remember that for quite a while it seemed that my exhales were much shorter than my inhales. That bothered me a lot, and it kept me from falling asleep sometimes. But, over time, my breathing evened out, and now I get to sleep quickly and sleep solidly. I know that I had to learn to "trust the machine". It's there to help us.

Like I said earlier, there's no reason to hurry this. Take your time before you change things. There's no need for perfection, and it may take a while to see full results. Trust me, there will come a point when this seems easy as pie and you won't even realize you're breathing into a mask.

I look forward to hearing how things go for you. We are here if you need us!

~ DreamOn

Re: Autoset II Changing from APAP to CPAP

Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:08 pm
by billbolton
Swim_Bike_Run wrote:Does anyone have any thoughts on what the results are indicating?
You need to stop second guessing your xPAP prescription until you have more experience with using xPAP.

Cheers,

Bill

Re: Autoset II Changing from APAP to CPAP

Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:31 pm
by Muse-Inc
Brian, if I had results like yours, I'd go back to what I did in the beginning and stick with it a bit more. It takes time for your brain to learn that sleeping with equipment means fewer events...sleeping without it confuses the brain so it never learns and continues to prevent you from getting the deep, restful sleep you need, instead it's worried that you are suffocating...slowly every time it lets you relax into deep sleep. Apneas are primary but don't discount hypopneas...that's all I had in my sleep study and my oxygen levels dropped to 83% creating oxygen deprivation that causes nightime hypertension trying to compensate, pressure so high it causes the body to dump fluid to reduce the pressure so ya gotta pee all night long (nocturia), it also caused my body to produce many more red blood cells and my hemocrit to rise both of which happen when you live at high altitude to compensate for reduced oxygen...these 2 markers are finally in the normal range and I started CPAP in Aug '07! That's why sleeping with the equipment ALL THE TIME is so important...you are re-training the brain and preventing oxygen deprivation, commonly called desaturations or desats.

After 17-18 months on CPAP, I became intolerant of exhaling against my pressure, so moved to an APAP with exhalation relief.

Re: Autoset II Changing from APAP to CPAP

Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:29 pm
by ozij
Swim_Bike_Run wrote:Woke up about 7 AM feeling awful. Figured I had made it 7 hours (whether I slept much or not) with mask on, so I took it off and set it on table and went back to sleep. Slept ok for 3-3.5 more hours and work up about 10:30 AM.
Swim_Bike_Run wrote:Overall - feel like crap. Groggy, with a little headache and not rested at all, especially given the fact that I was in bed for almost 11 hours. Nose was clogged so I did the neti pot this morning and that helped a bit, but I still have a major fog and grogginess going on. Not looking forward to today, feeling hazy all day that is.


Tossing and turning often register as hypopneas -

Re: Autoset II Changing from APAP to CPAP

Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:12 pm
by Swim_Bike_Run
Thanks everyone. I have switched it back to my original Auto settings (5-15). I do plan to expand out the settling a bit to see if I can fall asleep a little easier. I also plan to try and adjust my mask to see if I can reduce the leakage. I'll post a followup in the morning. Thanks again.

SBR

Re: Autoset II Changing from APAP to CPAP

Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:40 am
by Hawthorne
In addition to all the suggestions, I am wondering what you have your humidifier set at.

Some people get quite congested if the humidifier is set too high (for them).

Some people like and need a high humidifier setting especially in drier months, depending on where they live. Some do better with a low setting of 1 or 2 and some do better with pass over humidity (water in the chamber but no heat).

I live in Canada and do best with pass over humidity except from about November to March when I set it at 1 or 2.

Just another thought.

Re: Autoset II Changing from APAP to CPAP

Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:12 pm
by DreamOn
Swim_Bike_Run wrote:I'll post a followup in the morning.
How did you sleep last night? And how are you feeling today?