CPAPtalk.com

Well the cats out of the bag, you caught me. I carry 2 laptops to work everyday and drive around on my lunch hour in residential neighborhoods trying to find open wireless networks I can log into and create different forum accounts. I than post controversial subjects and sit back at work and watch the forum members explode on each other. Oh and this part I'm REALLY excited about, I have recently discovered a very cheap source of NIC cards so I can swap them on my home computers and create the same havoc at home on the forums as I do all day at work!!! I don't know what I will do if people get security wise and start securing their wireless networks, I might actually have to see patients all day!!!!


AKCPAPGUY (crawling back under his woodpile now)

[quote="BlackSpinner"]

Or do you suppose these phoney RT's are funded by DME & manufacturers lobbies?

quote]

Funded, doubtful.
Brainswashed. possible.

You go through 2-4 years of school, clinicals and hospital work all being taught that the patient is uneducated.
Perhaps there was a time when that was partially true, but the internet provides the patient with information at the press of a button, and for some in the field, it is hard to accept that the patient may actually have some idea what they are talking about. I've worked at hospitals that want you to tell the patient as "little" as possible about what you are there to do and why....needless to say, I didn't last very long there. I'm an explainer. I want YOU to know why, what and how i'm going to do something BEFORE I do it. Maybe that's why I enjoy DME, I get to do a LOT of education.

Unfortunately the field is still dominated by those who still want to believe the patient is the uneducated enemy.

CpapRRT wrote:... I'm an explainer. I want YOU to know why, what and how i'm going to do something BEFORE I do it. Maybe that's why I enjoy DME, I get to do a LOT of education.

Unfortunately the field is still dominated by those who still want to believe the patient is the uneducated enemy.

[ jbf drags over the soapbox and climbs on top of it ... ]

Good for you! Typically, the most effective treatment is one that involves the patient. This is especially true when it requires both modification of behavior and compliance with the treatment plan. This is true for diabetics as it is for apnea patients.

But let's face it, there are a whole host of reasons people might not want to share information. These can include:

• Fear of litigation
• Uncertainty about the underlying knowledge
• Feeling threatened by an educated patient
• Having to deal with an opinionated, but not educated patient
• Previous bad experiences with any of the above

You can find that in any consultative field where diagnosis of the problem and creation of a mitigation plan is required, such as engineering (of all sorts), working with the food supply, working with transportation systems, vehichle maintenance, computer consulting, and so on. You will find the same behaviors driving individuals there. I do computer consulting and attempt to teach as I help solve problems. But many, many other individuals just follow the process they have been taught and feel overwhelmed if they are asked questions.

And frankly, there are sometimes reasons why any industry requires certain things. For example, in most situations with computers reboot and retry are reasonable. Unless it is a computer system that contains a patient information system. Or unless it is a computer system that drives trading (stocks, bonds or commodities). Just because my nephew Joey knows how to use his computer does not mean he knows how to deal with these more difficult situations. Consulting companies build rules to help Joey avoid hurting others. He will need to demonstrate a certain level of experience before he goes it on his own. It's based on hard experience.

That is the same case for the healthcare industry. For many (if not most) of the cases, doing careful adjustment is not a problem. But as with computers, there are a small number of cases where "tinkering" is not wise and might lead to serious health problems. What if someone has an underlying heart condition? What if the person has a seriously compromised respiratory system? Unfortunately, when rules are created, they must address those fringe cases, not the majority of the cases.

I've seen others here get upset at that need, but as originally noted, "Don't blame RT/DME". Ideally, the RT/DME follows the approach that CpapRRT espouses: EDUCATE! I've switched doctors, DMEs and even landscapers if they don't help me learn how to deal with my situation. Empower me. But also help me know where I might get into trouble.

[ jbf steps down and drags off the soapbox ... ]

Brilliant post JBF, gets right to the core of the need for thorough knowledge of your illness and it possible unseen dangers before being absolutely safe to take it's treatment into your own hands.



I was out for over ten hours last night...Bliss

Guest wrote:Well the cats out of the bag, you caught me. I carry 2 laptops to work everyday and drive around on my lunch hour in residential neighborhoods trying to find open wireless networks I can log into and create different forum accounts. I than post controversial subjects and sit back at work and watch the forum members explode on each other. Oh and this part I'm REALLY excited about, I have recently discovered a very cheap source of NIC cards so I can swap them on my home computers and create the same havoc at home on the forums as I do all day at work!!! I don't know what I will do if people get security wise and start securing their wireless networks, I might actually have to see patients all day!!!!

AKCPAPGUY (crawling back under his woodpile now)

Do you think you should be driving around whilst using 2 laptops?

We need all the humour we can get in this business, so take care.

cheers

Mars

deadhead77 wrote:Brilliant post JBF, gets right to the core of the need for thorough knowledge of your illness and it possible unseen dangers before being absolutely safe to take it's treatment into your own hands.



I was out for over ten hours last night...Bliss

My pressure has been at 10, 7, and then 19, all by prescription from those professionals with "thorough knowledge of my illness". At least they did not kill me during those days.

I am very happy to have taken my treatment into my own "ignorant" hands, faced the "possible unseen dangers", tweaked without a license, and finally brought my therapy to the point of effectiveness.

My pressure has been at 10, 7, and then 19, all by prescription from those professionals with "thorough knowledge of my illness". At least they did not kill me during those days.

I am very happy to have taken my treatment into my own "ignorant" hands, faced the "possible unseen dangers", tweaked without a license, and finally brought my therapy to the point of effectiveness.

Well, Rooster, if you are ignorant, then ignorance is bliss! Interesting how the DMEs come and argue with somebody who obviously has had considerable success treating their OSA.

Autopapdude wrote:Interesting how the DMEs come and argue with somebody who obviously has had considerable success treating their OSA.

What's REALLY interesting is that Rooster's response to a fellow patient---one with contrasting views---somehow got highlighted to demonstrate exactly how those nasty DMEs come here to argue with us.

According to the wise McCarthy brain trust back in the fifties, there were stinkin' Commies hiding around just about every corner. They were just as quickly identified and blacklisted back then as a few members of our board are currently willing to publicly point out insidious DME's.

One might conclude God stocked the communist party with all his sociopaths back in the 1950's... but transferred every last one of them to the DME profession by 2009. By golly, it's almost as if some of us need a blanket enemy featuring encroaching villains who hide around just about every near and far corner. And there will always be those among us who are smart and wise enough to quickly point out all those villains for the sake of those cannot spot them as readily.

A stage is but a stage... and someone once said the world is one of them.

JohnBFisher, that was an EXCELLENT post you wrote.

I was nodding, "Yes, yes, yes...yes..." all the way through it.

Thank you for composing your message, jbf.

On another note:

akcpapguy wrote:Well the cats out of the bag, you caught me. ( --- etc.)

ROTFL!!! I love your sense of humor, akcpapguy.

stage is but a stage... and someone once said the world is one of them.

Act II, Scene VII of As You Like It by Good ole "Wille S."

Commentary on the 7 ages of man

Hi all,

I really liked jbf's post. I may be in the middle of the road--I want to make my own adjustments, but with the knowledge of my sleep physician. I am a newbie to this, but...

I see myself as the hub of the wheel. I am responsible for my own health. In that case that means knowing what my numbers are and what they mean, and how to work with my machine in my best interest. I see my sleep doctor, my DME, my RT, my insurance and my family as partners in my health. I take the responsibility to find the best available to me of all of the above, and use their advice/suggestions/support. If one of them, for instance, the DME or the physician, are not serving me well, then I will find another who does (I have already changed from my first DME rep, but I'm still working with the same company with a more responsive rep). In the month that I've been on cpap, I've adjusted my flow twice, and let my physician know the next day, supported by the numbers which show that they were good adjustments. We all work within legal and financial constraints, but I'm the bottom line when it comes to my health and cpap care.

I see sleep apnea as a chronic, life long illness, similar in that way to diabetes, so I want to be as educated and empowered as possible.

Cheers,

Happy Sleeper

What's REALLY interesting is that Rooster's response to a fellow patient---one with contrasting views---somehow got highlighted to demonstrate exactly how those nasty DMEs come here to argue with us.

According to the wise McCarthy brain trust back in the fifties, there were stinkin' Commies hiding around just about every corner. They were just as quickly identified and blacklisted back then as a few members of our board are currently willing to publicly point out insidious DME's.

One might conclude God stocked the communist party with all his sociopaths back in the 1950's... but transferred every last one of them to the DME profession by 2009. By golly, it's almost as if some of us need a blanket enemy featuring encroaching villains who hide around just about every near and far corner. And there will always be those among us who are smart and wise enough to quickly point out all those villains for the sake of those cannot spot them as readily.

Isn't that a wee bit extreme, SWS, to equate disdain for DME providers as "McCarthyism?" Methinks you have a wee bit of the theatrics in you as well. As for me, I have oft times stated my position in/re DMEs and their value, or lack thereof, based on MY EXPERIENCE. " I never have been nor will ever be a member of the DME advocacy group." lolol If you're a DME- hugger, or a "card-carrying member of the advocacy society for the preservation of DMEs", enjoy, and play nice!

Autopapdude wrote:
Isn't that a wee bit extreme, SWS, to equate disdain for DME providers as "McCarthyism?" Methinks you have a wee bit of the theatrics in you as well. As for me, I have oft times stated my position in/re DMEs and their value, or lack thereof, based on MY EXPERIENCE. " I never have been nor will ever be a member of the DME advocacy group." lolol If you're a DME- hugger, or a "card-carrying member of the advocacy society for the preservation of DMEs", enjoy, and play nice!

Hi All

Autopapdude has hit the nail on the head in the above post.

We talk about our experience. Our experience is personal, similar experiences are sometimes shared by others, and sometimes not.

What we sometimes forget is that our experience is not the whole story. So whereas condemning the particular people or companies who have abused us is valid and understandable, condemning a whole job sector is not.

If there is a rationale to condemning all RT's and DME consultants then we should still be condemning all Germans, all Japanese, all Chinese, all Koreans, all Vietnamese, all Cubans, all Iraqis and all Afghans etc and so on ad infinitum. Perhaps we should just condemn all human beings and have done with it.

I do not use a DME, because of bad experiences, I have vented about them, and may mention those incidents again. But the DME's who post are not the one's who abused me, so I welcome them. And despite the abuse some of them stick around. If I find they are abusive, misinformed or incorrect, I may respond to that.

I have found that in groups I have belonged to in the past that those with the loudest voice can set the tone for the whole group, no matter how wrong they are.

This is abuse.

Not just abuse to the DME workers, but to Forum members who want to have a dialogue with them.

-SWS made a good parallel, but we have never yet learned anything from past mistakes.

cheers

Mars

This thread has turned to much talking in generalities (That's OK, I do much of it myself.) and it may be that we are all in agreement at the "specifics" level.

To be specific, I insist on retaining my right, while allowing you the same right, to use the available tools to monitor my therapy and change my settings whenever I want to. Now is there "one behind a bush" who would like to deprive me of that right or, is my paranoia just kicking up again? Maybe both?

the problem is how people view the world
DMEs
See the world as green grass and shy, peaceful deer walking up and eating out your hand while rainbows are in the sky and a fairy says hi and has a present in a box for you.
The rest of us know:
That grass is green because of the manure and decomposing bodies, wolves are hiding in a bush, the storm causing that rainbow is destroying someone's house and that's Red Cap come to hack you to pieces with the axe he's hiding in the box.