CPAPtalk.com

No "may" here.

Jal Neti is a Yogic technique, which cures all diseases related to eyes, nose, throat and brain.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... CBEQ9QEwBA

Sutra Neti is performed by passing a cord made of cotton threads or a rubber catheter into the nose through one nostril and then out via the mouth. The cord is gently pulled to and fro for some time, removed and then threaded through the other nostril and out the mouth again.

When our Doctor's office sponsored a Support Group Meeting, I announced using nasal irrigation. The Sleep Nurse responded firmly and quickly, "We do not advise our Patients to use nasal irrigation".

This is a prime example of the 'litigious' risk management in our Health Care System. Lawyers have forced our Medical Professionals, particularly for those that have so much to lose, to take an extremely conservative stance on medical advice.

Though most of us have benefited greatly from nasal irrigation, both health wise and our CPAP therapy, some have had harmful experiences.

That's the beauty of this web site. It provides unadulterated advice, but take it at your OWN risk.

Each time I seek Medical Advice, I imagine the Doctor thinking, "What would my Lawyer advise me to say?".

SG

Results from 68 patients can be suggestive but hardly conclusive. And a control group of 24 makes far too small a sample for drawing conclusions.

It seems likely to me that there's also something wrong with the reporting on this study. The article presents two similar sounding but very different statements: 1. "Those who stopped using the nasal saline wash on a regular basis had a 62% decrease in the frequency of acute rhinosinusitis." and 2. "The investigators found that 62% of patients had a significant drop-off in the frequency of their rhinosinusitis infections after discontinuing the treatment." It may be a coincidence that these two dissimilar statements, one reporting on the frequency of attacks of all patients and the other reporting the proportion of patients having fewer attacks, use exactly the same percentage, but I suspect some muddy thinking is involved.

Raj wrote:Results from 68 patients can be suggestive but hardly conclusive. And a control group of 24 makes far too small a sample for drawing conclusions.

It seems likely to me that there's also something wrong with the reporting on this study. The article presents two similar sounding but very different statements: 1. "Those who stopped using the nasal saline wash on a regular basis had a 62% decrease in the frequency of acute rhinosinusitis." and 2. "The investigators found that 62% of patients had a significant drop-off in the frequency of their rhinosinusitis infections after discontinuing the treatment." It may be a coincidence that these two dissimilar statements, one reporting on the frequency of attacks of all patients and the other reporting the proportion of patients having fewer attacks, use exactly the same percentage, but I suspect some muddy thinking is involved.

Good catch Raj. It also could be that the reporter made a mistake when writing the article.

Just to be on the safe side, I am buying a roll of cotton thread when I go out today and switching away from the neti pot.

This is a study done by UW University of Wisconsin over a period of 9 years. Take that and blow it out your nose!
Study Results
We conducted clinical studies (Studies 1-4 below) evaluating the effect of daily nasal irrigation (also known as nasal wash) on the quality of life, symptoms, and medication use of patients with chronic sinus complaints. Sinus disease is common, affects quality of life and is a source of significant medication use. Nasal irrigation is an ancient technique in which salt water is allowed to gently bathe the nasal cavity, facilitating a gentle wash of the structures within. Our studies were done from 1999 to 2008 involving a total of 76 subjects.

We also conducted a study (Study 5 below) evaluating the use by family physicians of nasal irrigation for upper respiratory conditions.

Study 1: In a randomized controlled trial, we trained 52 patients with histories of sinus disease to use daily nasal irrigation, and compared their experience to 24 control subjects.1 We assessed quality of life, patients' compliance and satisfaction with nasal irrigation, sinus symptoms, and medication use. The group using nasal irrigation exhibited improved quality of life, less frequent symptoms, and used antibiotics and nasal sprays less often. They were compliant with nasal irrigation, liked using it, and suffered few side effects. Three follow-up studies have been published which add to the parent study.

Study 2: In Study 2, we wanted to determine whether subjects would continue to use nasal irrigation in a less structured setting and whether the control subjects would use nasal irrigation if trained and followed in an unstructured manner.2 We therefore monitored the original intervention subjects for an additional 12 months, and trained the initial control group subjects to use nasal irrigation for their chronic sinus conditions and followed them for 12 months. Both groups experienced similar improvement in quality of life and decreased nasal symptoms. Use patterns stabilized at about 3 nasal irrigations per week, used by some subjects on a strict schedule and by others only as needed.

Study 3: In Study 3, we wanted to know how users of nasal irrigation experienced the process of learning to use the therapy, and how they continued to use it at home. We conducted interviews with 28 subjects from the original study.3 Their comments were consistent across four main themes: 1) nasal irrigation was effective for chronic sinus symptoms and 2) it empowered subjects to care for chronic sinus symptoms on their own rather than always seek a physician's input. 3) There are some barriers to doing nasal irrigation including the time required and the initial sensation of water in the nasal cavity, but 4) these barriers could be overcome by good instruction and integration of nasal irrigation into subjects' at-home daily routines.

Study 4: Some people with chronic sinus conditions also have allergic rhinitis. Therefore, in Study 4, we hypothesized that nasal irrigation might be helpful to subjects with allergic rhinitis.4 We re-analyzed qualitative data to explore the research question "Do subjects using HSNI for chronic sinus symptoms, and who also had allergic rhinitis, experience improvement in allergy symptoms?" More than half of subjects with self-reported chronic sinus symptoms and concurrent allergic rhinitis spontaneously reported positive effects of nasal irrigation on allergy symptoms as distinct from chronic sinus symptoms, suggesting that nasal irrigation may be effective adjunctive therapy for allergic rhinitis.

Study 5: Study 5 assessed the use among family physicians in Wisconsin of nasal irrigation using an electronic questionnaire.5 Physican respondents have used nasal irrigation as adjunctive care for a variety of upper respiratory conditions including chronic rhinosinusitis (91%), acute bacterial rhinosinusitis (67%), seasonal allergic rhinitis (66%), viral upper respiratory infection (59%), other allergic rhinitis (48%), irritant based congestion (48%) and rhinitis of pregnancy (17%). Physicians also reported having used SNI prior to antibiotics for acute bacterial rhinosinusitis (77%). Use patterns varied regarding type of nasal irrigation used, dosing frequency, saline concentration and patient education.

Conclusion: We conclude from these studies, and from a review of the scientific literature, that nasal irrigation is an effective adjunctive therapy for chronic sinus symptoms.6 It may also be effective as adjunctive therapy for symptoms of other upper respiratory conditions that are risk factors for chronic sinus symptoms including acute upper respiratory infection (common cold), acute sinusitis, and

Thanks for the info rickskids (Go Philip Rivers).

rickskids wrote: Study 5: Study 5 assessed the use among family physicians in Wisconsin of nasal irrigation using an electronic questionnaire.

I want to switch to nasal irrigation using an electronic questionnaire. Sounds so much easier, less messy, and shouldn't gross my wife out.

Dangling participles. Love 'em.

Misplaced modifiers are fun also.

For sale: Mixing bowl set designed to please a cook with round bottom for efficient beating.

rooster wrote: I am buying a roll of cotton thread when I go out today

I use cotton clothesline...and depending on where you were in the 60s, you may need it, too!

Somebody told me that Sinus Irrigation helps prevent H1N1....which was sad, because I had stopped doing sinus irrigation because my fall allergies had passed so I wasn't congested before bedtime....and then I go and get the flu....

Now I'm using sinus irrigation again....

The Dreamer.

Your timing, sir, is impeccable. I've been using a Neti for just over a month and I've never felt so good. I use maybe 3x a week.

For me, daily nasal rinses -- at least once, and more if something is going on in there -- seems to keep sinus infection at bay, which used to plague me no end. I use packets of salt/soda, and a Neilmed squeeze bottle (I have also used a waterpik with special tip). I'd like to stop; but the times I have tried, sinus infections soon manifested themselves again, requiring 3-4 rinses/day to combat. Perhaps daily rinses do change the nasal chemistry somewhat; but xPAP therapy probably does, too... Another thing to consider is that some of us may be exposed to more pollen, mold spores and other nasties than others, due to where we live or "sick" buildings or whatever, and the nasal rinses have been shown too help get rid of things like that before they inflame tissues or otherwise take root.

BTW, while I started the rinses in desperation on my own, since antibiotics weren't working, when I told my sleep doctor and ENT what I was doing, both thought the rinses were a great idea.

It has been suggested that the study in the OP may have been flawed because patients (and doctors and researchers) may have confused migraines with sinus infections.

Sinus Headache Symptoms = Migraine?
For Many, Misdiagnosed Migraines Mean More MiseryBy Daniel J. DeNoon
WebMD Health NewsMarch 18, 2003 -- Got sinus headache symptoms? What you call a "sinus" attack may be a migraine.


It's not just a name game. If you're taking lots of headache pills for ongoing "sinus" headaches, it can make your migraines worse. And you're likely missing out on effective treatments, says Robert G. Kaniecki, MD, director of the headache center at the University of Pittsburgh. His update on headache diagnosis appears in the March 19 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association.


A person with a sinus infection does indeed suffer head pain. But there's no evidence that chronic, ongoing sinus infections are linked to recurring headaches. Such headaches likely are migraines.


"Sinus headache: We are the only country in the world that sees a significant health problem in this," Kaniecki tells WebMD. "Other countries don't see sinus headache apart form acute sinus infection. I think part of this is Madison Avenue convincing us of something that is more accurately part of migraine. "


It's really a problem, agrees headache specialist David C. Haas, MD, a neurologist at SUNY Upstate Medical University in Syracuse, N.Y.


"Everyone in the headache business knows that in America, sinus headaches are overdiagnosed by the public -- and, unfortunately, by doctors," Haas says. "When people get sinusitis, they do get head pain over, under, and behind the eyes. But these people usually have other symptoms of acute sinus infection. The problem is that when they don't have these symptoms, a lot of people say they have sinus headaches. That sort of thing is misdiagnosis. I see a lot of patients come in with migraines who are on antibiotics for sinus headaches."


This is a significant part of antibiotic overuse in the U.S., Kaniecki suggests. Moreover, overuse of headache pills leads to rebound headaches.


The underlying problem is that migraines are more common than most people realize. Migraines are known to affect 18% of U.S. women and 6% of U.S. men. But fewer than half of migraine headaches get diagnosed. Many get misdiagnosed as sinus or tension headaches.


A big part of the problem, Kaniecki says, is that people suffering sinus headache symptoms go to their doctor and say they have sinus problems. Doctors with limited time may focus on sinus issues and fail to diagnose a migraine.


Kaniecki says people with headaches should see a doctor to rule out underlying health problems. He says if there's no other explanation, you likely have a migraine:


If your headache interferes with your life.
If your headache makes you adjust your daily schedule, lie down, or miss work or school.
If your headache makes you sick to your stomach.
If your headache is often throbbing and one-sided.
If your headache gets worse with activities such as bending over or going up stairs.
If your headache makes you sensitive to strong light, noise, strong odors, or sudden movements.

http://www.webmd.com/migraines-headache ... s-migraine

rooster wrote:It has been suggested that the study in the OP may have been flawed because patients (and doctors and researchers) may have confused migraines with sinus infections.

Yes Sir Right on. I went for years going from one doctor to another with "sinus headaches" until finally they figured out they were migraines related to my hormone cycle and weather.
Of course then I had a diagnoses and no treatment worth mentioning since the migraine prevention medication turned me into a zombie incapable of working 100% of the time instead of just a few days a month. The final solution was a complete hysterectomy and learning various relaxation and pain relief mental techniques and acupressure. Do you wonder why I love my cpap machine?

I have been an avid user of the Neilmed system using homemade saline and just the right temperature tap water. Although anecdotal, I get fewer colds. I surmise this may be true as the excess mucous I have had going back far into my youth, had me picking my nose constantly to get the dried up snot out. Using the Neilmed twice a day, more if something is up, keeps my nose clean and therefore keeps my fingers out thereby avoiding plague innoculation and, therefore, colds.

.

.