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OK then, are the numbers correct as you had originally posted (or as I have transcribed them)?

Muffy

Not at all a big deal, plr66. If you're sure you didn't sleep 14.4 hours during the Monday night below, then at least one of these three data fields from that Monday night contains an error: 1) Apneas@13, 2) Hypopneas@13, 3) AHI=2.5.

..............................................M.....T....W....Th......F
Apneas.....................................13....7....10....10.....3
Apneas w/Cardiac Oscillations.........9....2.....5......1.....4
Hypopnea..................................13....7....16.....11...17
Hypopnea w/Flow Limitations..........1....1.....5......1.....1

AHI's were: 2.5, 4.8, 4.3, 3.0, 2.7

Another data collection round might not be a bad idea. In the meantime I really like your theory that a FFM might be pulling your mandible back just enough to exacerbate an upper airway-clearance problem. Any chance of loosening the lower straps without also producing large leaks?

OMG, how embarrassing. I immediately see going back into my software and finding the first night at pressure of 10. (13-9-13-1) that I juxtaposed my AHI on the first 2 nights. First one should have been 4.8, second one 2.5!! Could it only get worse after that mistake?? Great way to get help is to present accurate data, huh? Sorry.
SO! As we were!
(Maybe we could just delete that whole section??

'66, here you go.
Not an easy task to capture these on "film".
If you study them carefully you may see a difference....
or it may just be an optical delusion.......
or simply a fig newton of your imagination.
You be the judge.
These are UM small seals.
The small/shallow is on the left in each of the pics.

CM, Thanks so much for going to all that trouble. Your photos are great, and although subtle, the differences become very clear by looking at them. I was thinking the Standard UM might have a significantly larger air space in its cavity which might make it worth an experiment to see if CO2 would be removed more effectively, or whether I might just breathe better in it. Guess not. Shoot, who needs an ole DME when we've got a virtual warehouse with experts right here to show us the goods!
Thanks again.

plr66 wrote:I was thinking the Standard UM might have a significantly larger air space in its cavity which might make it worth an experiment to see if CO2 would be removed more effectively, or whether I might just breathe better in it. Guess not. Shoot, who needs an ole DME when we've got a virtual warehouse with experts right here to show us the goods!
Thanks again.

You're welcome. No trouble.

Remember, the reason I have these is we can ponder, discuss, hypothesize,
imagine, fantasize, wonder and hope.......
but the only way to know, for sure, is to try it.

I'm not even gonna say how long it took me to get this table posted here.
And I'll live with the missing line, as I will never figure out how to repeat the process I just scrabbled through!
These are my most recent numbers using the Sm Shallow UMFFM and straight cpap at 10.5. I actually had to stay home the day after the AHI 6.7 for the first time in over a year, just unable to function due to the high numbers all week (for me). Stayed in bed about 11-12 hours that day and had an AHI of 7.3!! (But a big cluster of the events were when I was semi-awake in the late morning, so I omitted those numbers). When I use my nasal pillow mask, I have for a year maintained below AHI 1.5---FWIW.

I don't claim to know why the FFM is so different from your experiences with the nasal pillow. But, you're just looking for something to alternate in emergencies, aren't you? I'm fascinated with the differences and all the discussions in this thread, but maybe you're better off staying with what worked for you so well. You'll still have the FFM for emergencies, which will be better than no treatment at all if you can't use the nasal pillow for some reason.

I'm very interested in this discussion, as I am using a nasal pillow and contemplating getting a FFM someday for the same reason you did.

Machine, mask.... usually first items to get the blame for a spike in AH1. How about recently added medications, physical change (pulled muscle), ambient air change, the list could go on and on?????

Scarlet834 wrote:...I'm fascinated with the differences and all the discussions in this thread, but maybe you're better off staying with what worked for you so well.

Scarlet, thanks for your interest in this thread. And thanks for the straight line! Forgive me for my gallows humor, but just can't help myself....Yes, I'd love to have stayed with what worked for me......but then that's a whole 'nuther story! (Yup--here it comes again....See viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41729&st=0&sk=t&sd=a) Sorry, Sorry, Sorry!

Actually, I think I mentioned that I'm needing a FFM to give my skin some recovery time every now and again from the taping that makes my nasal mask therapy so effective for me. And the trigger for my posting this thread was how really awful I have felt over such a realatively short period of time using this UM FFM, despite a leak rate which is right on target (with a few very minor exceptions of an occasional hour of slightly elevated leaks).

Maple Leaf, I appreciate your input, and that helped me to double-check everything. I have had no changes in meds (really don't take but a couple of standard ones, with no medical conditions), no changes in diet, sleep habits, exercise patterns, humidity, ambient air...just can't think of a thing that makes the difference, which is why I began questioning the physics of this mask here.

I do remember that other thread--I just forgot it was you who started it!

I never had the benefit of the good pillows so I'm plugging along with what's available today but have requested a backup pillow for whenever it all goes hooey. Ignorance is bliss.

So, I'm thinking you're maybe going to continue to look at FFMs with different CO2 exhaust configurations? I'm definitely perplexed. I know that the humidity you need for comfort varies between nasal pillows and face masks, but I would think if that was remotely an issue it would have been reflected in your numbers. Forgive me if I also don't remember if you've ever tried Polident as a replacement for taping (I have not).

Do you wake up during the night, and do you notice a difference in that between the nasal pillow and the FFM?

Scarlet834 wrote: So, I'm thinking you're maybe going to continue to look at FFMs with different CO2 exhaust configurations? I'm definitely perplexed. I know that the humidity you need for comfort varies between nasal pillows and face masks, but I would think if that was remotely an issue it would have been reflected in your numbers. Forgive me if I also don't remember if you've ever tried Polident as a replacement for taping (I have not).

Do you wake up during the night, and do you notice a difference in that between the nasal pillow and the FFM?

More good questions to help me think this through. I use passover humidity only. Hadn't occurred to me to try a low level humidity, since I've been content without it. Not sure why that would have an effect, but am willing to try it. Polident lasted one night for me. I nearly had to scrub my lips off my face to remove the gummy mess in the morning....just never understood how people do it!! And yes, I think I do wake up a bit more with the FFM, making sure in a semi-conscious state, that I'm venting okay on the edge of my pillow. With the nasal mask, it's just less high maintenance while sleeping. Maybe that's a piece of this....

plr, I'm also following this with interest and I keep going back to that Shallow? I forgot if you mentioned how you decided on that size. Also wondering if your facial features are really compatible(sorry for being nosy) I don't know if you read my saga on Size Matters -Part 2. I guess CB is right, the only way to know is to try. We tried and now we know that small differences do matter. Hope you get this straightened out soon. Dori

DoriC wrote:plr, I'm also following this with interest and I keep going back to that Shallow? I forgot if you mentioned how you decided on that size. Also wondering if your facial features are really compatible(sorry for being nosy)

Nosy?? OMG!! On this forum we are sharing our bathroom habits, bedtime practices, sex, bidets, bowels, alcohol use/abuse, diet details, medications, medical conditions ad nauseum, and on & on & on!! And it's ALL GOOD!! "Nosy" is what it's all about!

Yes, I found the Small Shallow mask to fit my face perfectly, which is why my leak rate is right on. I also meant to respond to SWS that I cannot loosen my lower strap any more because I have it exactly where I will not get leaks. (This relates to the idea that the lower strap and FFM may be pulling in my lower jaw to close my airway too much---leading possibly to the higher AHI's).

Say, now that you've got the hang of posting images, can you post some of the 420E data?

Muffy