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BlackSpinner wrote:I don't see the point of napping with a monitor to wake you up if you desat. Who sleeps with interruptions - the cpap is supposed to take care of that problem?
You won't get any rem sleep that way so there is no point to the whole exercise.

Mars,

To BS's point, I took my strenuous trail run this morning and wanted to nap after lunch to rest up for tonight's high school football opener. I put the mask on, lay down in the Falcon position, and the next thing I knew 90 minutes had passed and I was awakening from a sweet dream. Anytime I awaken naturally (no alarm or wife) from a dream, I feel great and it carries well into the day. If I am awakened by apneas, I feel terrible, sometimes for the entire day.

You might try alternating naps with CPAP and naps with the oximeter only and compare how you feel each time upon awakening.

Regards,

rooster wrote:

BlackSpinner wrote:I don't see the point of napping with a monitor to wake you up if you desat. Who sleeps with interruptions - the cpap is supposed to take care of that problem?
You won't get any rem sleep that way so there is no point to the whole exercise.

Mars,

To BS's point, I took my strenuous trail run this morning and wanted to nap after lunch to rest up for tonight's high school football opener. I put the mask on, lay down in the Falcon position, and the next thing I knew 90 minutes had passed and I was awakening from a sweet dream. Anytime I awaken naturally (no alarm or wife) from a dream, I feel great and it carries well into the day. If I am awakened by apneas, I feel terrible, sometimes for the entire day.

You might try alternating naps with CPAP and naps with the oximeter only and compare how you feel each time upon awakening.

Regards,

Rooster and All

I thought I had explained all this, but will try again.

The Concise Oxford Dictionary defines nap as -
1. Sleep lightly or briefy
and
2. Short sleep, doze,esp. by day.

My posts make it clear I am using the first definition, and your post above indicates that you are using the second definition. So you are not actually responding to what I have posted. If I was to go to bed, I would use my cpap machine.

For me, a nap is something that happens when I am relaxing in the recliner. I could be reading, watching TV, or listening to music, or just allowing my mind to wander. I find myself closing my eyes, and know I now want (need) a nap. I reach down for my oximeter, put it on and close my eyes, and slowly drift off to sleep, doze or what you will. An hour can pass before I wake up, no alarm has gone off, and I have had a refreshing sleep.

I do not have to get up, I do not have to move my recliner (and cause back pain - not conducive to a nap). I can continue to be relaxed and drowsy, and just nap with my oximeter. If I was having apneas or hypopneas I would desaturate. I do not desaturate, I nap, peacefully and restfully.

This is my reality, why anyone would want to knock this I have no idea. I see no reason to force myself to keep on trying what you do when I have a perfectly good method of napping already, which I originally explored because the cpap machine was not a viable option for naps on my armchair. But now you tell me that you do not use the armchair - you go to bed. Not the same thing at all. The body position, and the position of the throat would be quite different.

You will notice I do not advocate you trying my method 50% of the time, or any % of the time. You are happy with what you do, and there is no reason for me to advocate you change it. I am obviously happy with what I do, so why go on about wanting me to change.

This whole argument against what I am talking about is getting more and more difficult to follow, as the arguments basically totally ignore what I have said. You talk about feeling great after your machine aided nap, but it seems that my feeling great after my oximeter aided nap is not valid, and is continually ignored by some posters.

So we have to ask the question - is this a supportive forum, or a venue to knock people down who come up with a new idea. What I have been talking about bears no relation to what you have been posting about.

So why do you keep trying to get me to stop doing it?

Your help to so many people over the short time I have been in the Forum makes it difficult to understand what you are trying to achieve.

cheers

Mars

PS I knew when I started this post that I would get the gainsayer's, but I never thought that I would have to turn into some kind of advocate for a particular way of napping. The thought of all this energy being expended over a simple suggestion that cpapers can try, or not, as they wish, is mind-boggling.

mars wrote:
...............So why do you keep trying to get me to stop doing it?

............

We are trying to protect you from the Nap Nazi who eventually strikes every unmasked napper.



Don't let this happen to you - it won't come off even with laser treament. Always mask up!

(Oximeters offer no protection from the Nap Nazi!)

Rooster
I wonder if the Nazi Nazis will attack this post?

Hi All.

What I am not going to let happen to me is to let irrational and pointless posts prevent me from doing what is best for me, and that may be of help to others.

As Albert Einstein said - “Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance.”

Of course - he meant honest investigation, not pseudo investigation!

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quote from ozij

Post by ozij on 16 Sep 2009, 06:36

Muffy Annotator wrote:

the ozij grocery list wrote:
Does a drop in saturation, from 98 to 94, unaccompanied by a change in pulse rate mean anything?

no
*********************************************************************************************
Does any 4 point drop above 90% unaccompanied etc. mean anything?

no,
*********************************************************************************************
What about 98 to 92?
still no, , , ,

When does duration become relevant?

when it's <90%,

End extract of Ozij quote

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The most relevant answer is -

*********************************************************************************************
Does any 4 point drop above 90% unaccompanied etc. mean anything?

no,
*********************************************************************************************

So thank you, Muffy, for that clear and useful information.

Perhaps now we can have a discussion on the use of oximeters to facilitate healthy naps without irrational and destructive posts.

I still have successful 1 hour naps without the alarm going off, or after the alarm goes off at the start, I then sleep and wake up rested. No one on this forum can take that away from me, no matter how many dishonest posts they may make.

cheers

Mars

Perhaps as the caregiver of my husband's therapy I am in a position to observe his nightly sleep habits as well as naps. If he purposely decides to take a nap he uses the machine always, but if he hasn't taken his planned nap and happens to drift off in his recliner while reading or TV, I am usually right there and notice that his mouth stays closed and he does not have any events for the first 45mins to 1hr. By that time he usually awakes on his own naturally. If he naps longer than that(rarely), his jaw will tend to drop open and he will have an event. In that case I gently push his chin up which then wakes him up.(You've napped long enough anyway, buddy!). I also notice from his reports that most of his events happen later on towards morning after 6-7hrs of sleep. So that's my story on naps!

You know what Mars, if you can nap, not have any events, with no desats and wake up feeling refreshed, go for it. We are all just jealous we can't do that. I know I am.

rosie

rosiefrosie wrote:You know what Mars, if you can nap, not have any events, with no desats and wake up feeling refreshed, go for it. We are all just jealous we can't do that. I know I am.

Ditto! I'm terrified of sleeping wo my machine...too much desatting in my PSG and I know I still have events! If I had a recording oximeter with an alarm...then I might consider it.

Mars,

I think what you are saying makes a lot of sense. It is a good idea and I thank you for posting.

Gail

Mars, I agree that you've got a good routine unless you'd like me to come over and watch you nap!

I only get to take naps on the weekends and most of the time I don't wear my CPAP because it takes too long for me to go to sleep. But, after reading about the numbers others are getting maybe I'd feel better if I did wear the CPAP for naps. Think I'll give it a try this weekend.

OneCat has it figured out.

[quote="OneCatBelleSundance"]I only get to take naps on the weekends and most of the time I don't wear my CPAP because it takes too long for me to go to sleep. But, after reading about the numbers others are getting maybe I'd feel better if I did wear the CPAP for naps. Think I'll give it a try this weekend.[/end quote]

Hi OneCatBelleSundance

With any kind of sleep we need to protect ourselves from oxygen desaturation. If you are not going to use an oximeter set to wake you up from your nap before desaturation, then the machine certainly needs to be used.

However, for naps as described in this thread, an oximeter gives you another choice, and for me a far better choice than my machine.

Hi DoriC

Believe me, Dori, if I had a choice between an oximeter and a loving caring partner, then the oximeter would go out of the window. I reckon I lost my 1st wife through drinking, and my 2nd wife through the physical and mental deterioration that comes from untreated sleep apnea. Your and your husband would be welcome in Australia at any time.

Hi Pugsy, 5aces, WearyOne, tattooyu, DoriC, Gailandartie, Rosiefrosie, Muse-Inc and the other good people on previous threads,

It is reassuring to know that there are people on the forum who do not have a closed mind, and even if this option is not for them, they can still be supportive of new ideas.

The constant negative posts about just a simple idea that might just help some of us in some small way, could easily turn some newcomers off something that might help them; or even turn them off the forum altogether. Given the the irrationality, dishonesty, and pointlessness of some of the posts, it could make them decide the forum was not a helpful place to be, and leave it. Or they could be frightened off posting in case they get attacked, or maliciously ridiculed.

So it is good to hear from you all.

Thank you

Mars

I just wish we could lay this whole thread to rest!

If that works for you Mars then great! If it doesn't work for others or they don't want to try it -that's it.

You don't need to defend your choice and neither does anyone else.

Anyone looking for info on cpap and naps can search it and they will find this thread and can read about your experience and the experience of others and make their decision.

Hawthorne

I could not agree more, but you are talking to the wrong person.

I have not been defending my choice, I have been pointing out lies, misleading posts and misinformation.

How can people make an informed decision when they are being mislead?

Mars

Mars, You are right. I should have addressed my post to everyone who has posted on this thread.

People have expressed their opinions and preferences. Let's just leave it at that---if we can.