CPAPtalk.com

janp wrote:
"Since your DME will read the data and deliver the results to you and your physician" ... really! ?

I wonder how many of us have had that experience!!! Or if it actually happen, how productive it was in our therapy.

You're also implying that we don't even have a need for any software ... "your DME will read the data".

Think that may be why WE use the software to monitor/guide our own therapy!!!

That last comment (and others) makes me feel that you might be someone associated with a DME.

Now you're just getting desperate. You've made some preposterously misinformed statements about the legality of music and software piracy, and when shown to be wrong, rather than respond (or heaven forbid admit you were wrong ) you resort to ad-hominem attacks.

I am not associated with a DME, nor do I work in the healthcare field. I bought my machine and software with my own funds from CPAP.COM, the sponsor of this forum, and use the data provided by the software I purchased to monitor my own therapy. If I had received a machine from an insurance company and didn't want to pay for software, I'd be asking the DME to provide reports rather than resorting to software theft. One of my good friends, a recently diagnosed patient with three kids in college is doing just that, and it's working out just fine for him, as it is for many others here on this forum.

Mounting a very aggressive argument ... but with an agenda.

I believe musicians, performers and software developers are entitled to be paid for their work.

I repeat, if Respironics offered the current Encore Pro to the REAL users ... there would be a long line to purchase it.

Fine, steal Encore Pro if you must, just don't pretend that what you are doing is legal.

Have a nice life.

Jan

I won't stoop to your level.

El Pap:

To begin with, I never said that I obtained an illegal copy of Encore Pro. I bought my copy when it was available. Now it is not available, which I think is a travesty.

Also, a fairly typical definition of civil disobedience is as follows:

civil disobedience
n.
Refusal to obey civil laws in an effort to induce change in governmental policy or legislation, characterized by the use of passive resistance or other nonviolent means.

I love that you have an opinion. I think, however, that you are trapped in an intellectual box. You are drawing inferences that are not supported by the proceeding posts. In my opinion, black and white should be reserved for newspapers and zebras.

FFOGHORN wrote:El Pap:

To begin with, I never said that I obtained an illegal copy of Encore Pro. I bought my copy when it was available. Now it is not available, which I think is a travesty.

That's good, but the whole reason I got into this argument is because people are suggesting to newbies in chat to use peer-to-peer software to pirate Encore Pro rather than to buy Encore Viewer, and doing so without telling them that what they are doing is illegal.

I'm curious what is so horrible about Encore Viewer. From what I've read on the forum, it has the exact same reports as Encore Pro, with the sole difference being that the latter is able to store long term results for multiple patients in a SQL database. Has anyone who has purchased Encore Viewer asked Respironics for a downgrade license to run the older version of Encore Pro?

Also, a fairly typical definition of civil disobedience is as follows:

civil disobedience
n.
Refusal to obey civil laws in an effort to induce change in governmental policy or legislation, characterized by the use of passive resistance or other nonviolent means.

Henry David Thoreau did not cheat on his taxes, he openly refused to pay them and was jailed for that refusal. The willingness to accept the punishment for transgressions is what makes civil disobedience a powerful agent for political change. This argument hasn't changed in the 40 years since this short essay was published in Time magazine: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 95,00.html

El Pap wrote: I'm curious what is so horrible about Encore Viewer. From what I've read on the forum, it has the exact same reports as Encore Pro, with the sole difference being that the latter is able to store long term results for multiple patients in a SQL database. Has anyone who has purchased Encore Viewer asked Respironics for a downgrade license to run the older version of Encore Pro?

What is so horrible about Viewer is that it won't work with Pro Analyzer. The trend data from those wiggley lines both Pro and Viewer produces to get your trend data from are worthless. I can understand the trend data from Pro Analyser. I do wonder why the both collect data on length of time in apnea and variable breathing data but won't let you see it in eather one. You have to get Pro Analyser and it only reads the SQL data base which Viewer does not use. Viewer is just to stripped down. I have both.

Jerry

My god you people sure know how to flame a thread into oblivion.

Encore Pro (despite the fact that it's not currently sold to end users) is still sold and is in fact copyrighted. See the picture below. Copyrighted. This pic is a from a legit purchase (albeit the older release) that I was able to track down and purchase second hand from the original user, and included the original CD and box from Respironics.

If you download this software for free using PirateBay or the like, it is piracy. No if's and's or but's about it. Now whether you consider that to be moral or ethical I leave to you, but this thread is going nowhere in a hurry. If someone doesn't consider it to be a slight against the manufacturers (which are not blameless in the matter) then they're going to do it, and no amount of huffing and puffing is going to change their mind. Just leave it be.

Ender519 wrote:My god you people sure know how to flame a thread into oblivion.

Encore Pro (despite the fact that it's not currently sold to end users) is still sold and is in fact copyrighted. See the picture below. Copyrighted. This pic is a from a legit purchase (albeit the older release) that I was able to track down and purchase second hand from the original user, and included the original CD and box from Respironics.

If you download this software for free using PirateBay or the like, it is piracy. No if's and's or but's about it. Now whether you consider that to be moral or ethical I leave to you, but this thread is going nowhere in a hurry. If someone doesn't consider it to be a slight against the manufacturers (which are not blameless in the matter) then they're going to do it, and no amount of huffing and puffing is going to change their mind. Just leave it be.

Is the true test of "legitimacy" that the software has to be "PURCHASED"?
I noticed you said you purchased the software "second hand" from the original user. If the original user is STILL using it (still installed on his/her computer.....maybe they made a copy to keep and then sold you the original disk), then is that "legitimate"?

What if somebody "gives" you the software? (original disk or otherwise)
What if it is included with a machine you're purchasing from a person (and there's no breakdown of the price for the software)?


Den

Wulfman wrote:Is the true test of "legitimacy" that the software has to be "PURCHASED"?
I noticed you said you purchased the software "second hand" from the original user. If the original user is STILL using it (still installed on his/her computer.....maybe they made a copy to keep and then sold you the original disk), then is that "legitimate"?

What if somebody "gives" you the software? (original disk or otherwise)
What if it is included with a machine you're purchasing from a person (and there's no breakdown of the price for the software)?

Well.... yeah... it has to be purchased, or offered under an open-source model, or old enough that it's considered abandonware. Otherwise, it's illegit. If it comes with the sale of a secondhand cpap machine, then it's bought and paid for, hence a purchase.. Honestly isn't this splitting hairs at this point?

Can I be sure the person I bought it from isn't still using the software? Probably not, but the same could be said of ANY software you purchase second hand.. which was the only legimate way I could find to purchase encore pro. Can't buy it direct from the company. At least this one was the real deal and not a burned bittorrent download.

I have to agree with ender519 this thread has gone nowherebut made a few people look silly...

ffoghorn:

The bottom line is that it is illegal why you do or did it doesnt matter, it doesnt make it right. I am a software developer and enjoy getting paid for my work, Do you enjoy getting paid for your work? The software is an enhancement to an already functioning piece of equipment, making it an optional item and if one would like to use it they can then pay for it. It is illegal and no excuse will make it the right thing to do even Civil disobedience.

Some of us would prefer to live in South Korea, and some of us would prefer to rule in North Korea.

When one communicates in a heartfelt manner, I don't feel compelled to dismiss it as silly. I get an opinion and so do you.

ffoghorn:

Your right everyone is entitled to an opinion and i am sorry if i have offended any one by my statement in my above post.

Thanks..

csellebrecht wrote: if one would like to use it they can then pay for it.

As it's not available for sale to us peons, just whom would you suggest they "pay"?

And you don't "buy" ANY retail software. What you buy is the license to use it. I would hope someone who claims to be a software developer knows that.

It is perfectly legal for me to possess, trade, give, be given, up-or-down-load whatever software I wish, whether I hold a license to it or not. It's illegal for anyone to USE software unless they have the license to do so. Some software distributors limit the transfers of license and some forbid it altogether.