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I would be much more concerned about errors in logic and content then format.
I have worked with sales staff that communicate beautifully - just the imformation is totally wrong. Give me an inarticulate geek any day.

And as for doctors who speak a foriegn language - welcome to Quebec. Besides do they listen to what you say? Do you understand what they are saying even if they speak the same language as you?

Feelin' ya now, 5aces. Thanks. But now I'm really stinkin' hungry!

grandmma wrote: Sorry to disappoint you SWS, but as I'm from Aussie, I did not actually know that "AR" is the abbreviation for Arkansas (although I DO know how to pronounce it!!)

That's close enough as far as I'm concerned, grandmmar!

I agree that they didn't spell Akcansaw the way it ought'a be spellt! I mean... people from Kansas don't go around sayin' they're from Kansaw. Their butcherin' the language pretty bad up in them thar hills!

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Carbonman, guess I should mention how I voted in this poll. I voted "no" for an entire variety of reasons. People have varying language skill levels. Language is a social skill as well. And people have varying social-skill levels when implementing language.

I have known plenty of articulate people who seemed to care for neither people nor truths, despite elegantly arranged words. Conversely I have come to know mentally handicapped individuals who revered both truths and other humans. Words never make the man or reveal the heart, so much as actions and ideas do.

I have known plenty of articulate people who seemed to care for neither people nor truths, despite elegantly arranged words. Conversely I have come to know mentally handicapped individuals who revered both truths and other humans. Words never make the man or reveal the heart, so much as actions and ideas do.

Beautifully worded, SWS. Poetic.

SWS, You are articulate, elegant and you care. (and you use big words too)!

I must say that I don't judge people because I can't spell good myself either. I have to carry a dictionary around with me in order to make sure that I'm spelling correctly. I call my sister to ask her all the time how to spell something. She is a walking, talking dictionary. Grammar is a big pet peeve of hers also. However give her a math or computer problem and she's sitting there all day trying to figure it out. I'm excellent at math, computers, and extremely detailed work. I can sit all day long and work on computers. My sister laughs at me because I do math problems in my head to pass time on my way home from work. She has gone to college to become a medical assistant and made honors while I went to college and got 3 associates for PC/LAN Support. I couldn't have done the medical thing due to my inability to spell good but I was able to do the computer thing and I am going back to school in a yr for my bachelors. I will one day graduate with a doctorate in computer science. I don't care if I'm 100 yrs old. I will do it.

Elbysmom - Good for you! And your point is well taken. Lack of mastery in any given area is not an indicator of intelligence. We're all wired differently. And if by some chance one actually is limited in abilities, education, or even familiarity, I would not want to add to their burden. Life does enough of that without my help.

Kathy
A whiz at medical terminology who wouldn't go to nursing school because I was scared of the chemistry.

I'd say my reply the poll was extremely context dependent - which is why I didn't vote.

And while I agree with the sentiment expressed by -SWS I would change its wording slightly; instead of:

Words never make the man or reveal the heart, so much as actions and ideas do.

I would say:

Spelling never makes the man nor reveals the heart, so much as actions and ideas do.

The reason for the change is that our ability to express ideas without words is pretty limited.

As I said in another thread: people can cheat you using perfect grammar and spelling. On the other hand, I'm sure you can find excellent mechanics with exquisite attention to detail, surgeons with "hands of gold" (do you have that idiom in English?) musicians with perfect pitch whose spelling and writing ability are atrocious.

Despite what TV, Hollywood and advertising agencies would have us think, first impressions can be misleading. In the majority of professions, there's more to professionalism - and to communication - than perfect presentation, or presentations for that matter.

Furthermore there are many languages in the world, and some people are more talented that others at picking up a second (third or fourth) language.

O.

I'll second what D.S. writes.

For professional articles, poor grammar and syntax make readers suspect the accuracy of the article and the technical ability of the writer. In my personal experience, people who write and speak well are more likely to earn the respect of their peers.

However, many times folks who perhaps do not have the benefit of years of schooling still write compelling posts. Often folks who might be worried that their spelling or diction is not letter perfect still write to describe their worries as best they can in forums such as this; and, they are treated cordially and with respect. I've also seen some posts from apneics who are just too mentally fogged to arrange the words the way they want them to come out. Everyone understands, and lots of OSA patients who've been there are eager to help.

Survey is flawed; cannot answer it.

The correct answer, as most people already know and have stated, is it very highly depends on context.

So little in life is "black & white". That's one reason why I love my avatar.

Maybe I'll change my handle to Queen of Ambiguity.

Upon reading the original post (again) I should qualify my previous 'NO' answer with: "as it applies to this forum"

In the Real World,in a professional capacity,I would think we have a higher standard of error tolerance.

The number one set of tools that will hold an individual back from promotion are poor grammar and diction (enunciation and pronunciation) communication skills.

Next,would be personal grooming.Believe It or Not.

Oddly,today's amusement (the horoscope) seemed to apply to this thread:

"Your conservative side may put up a red flag when some information comes from an unorthodox source, but don't reject it outright.
Sometimes the best gifts arrive in banged-up packages with tacky wrapping paper.
And worrying about what other people think while you're unwrapping this little mystery will only slow you down.
It's the end results that count in this case, not how pretty the path is getting there."

carbonman wrote: I don't want to be the spell-check police.
Everyone makes mistakes.

There's always the prospect of transfer to our in-house errors-and-omissions police force:

ozij wrote: I would change its wording slightly; instead of:

Words never make the man or reveal the heart, so much as actions and ideas do.

I would say:

Spelling never makes the man nor reveals the heart, so much as actions and ideas do.

The reason for the change is that our ability to express ideas without words is pretty limited.

Officer, how does the construct of that first sentence limit or even favor its scope to that of ideas without words?

And don't I get a little wiggle room for "reveals the heart" as if it were subordinate sequencing of that abstract process which "makes the man"? Because if we grant that wiggle room, then the word "or" gets to stay so that we can nicely avoid place those two on equal footing (as paired alternatives) with the word "nor".


And placing all my above silly nonsense and fun aside, the valid point surfaces about just where we would draw our hypothetical line regarding an acceptable rate or level of errors versus unacceptable. To error is human. And to air opinions is human as well. And I am of the opinion that we shall continue to air and error together on this message board about the application of CPAP air of all things.

Grandmma and DoriC, thank you for those very kind comments! Ozij, thank you for the well-intended and very well-taken corrections as well.

Carbonman, as always your threads are both thought-provoking and fun. Thank you!

Officer, how does the construct of that first sentence limit or even favor its scope to that of ideas without words?

Gulp. Me?

On rereading the original sentence I agree: It doesn't limit or favor its scope to ideas without words.... ammendation taken back, Sir.
However, I do believe that revealining the heart cannot be a subordinate of anything...
O.

Words can serve to reveal the inner man. Spelling and grammar can distract from that. But a loving listener, in my opinion, will try hard to ignore that which distracts when attempting to connect and help.

ozij wrote:

Officer, how does the construct of that first sentence limit or even favor its scope to that of ideas without words?

Gulp. Me?

On rereading the original sentence I agree: It doesn't limit or favor its scope to ideas without words.... ammendation taken back, Sir.
However, I do believe that revealining the heart cannot be a subordinate of anything...
O.

Can't revealing of the heart be a logical-sequencing type subordinate, regarding cause and effect here? The heart can only be revealed as that making-of-the-man process occurs. Thus the making of the heart---irrespective of words---is necessary for that subordinate action, namely revealing the heart.

No wiggle room?