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ozij wrote:Thanks for catching my mistake, -SWS.

Here's the link again --
Apples and Oranges -- a Comparison
by Scott A. Sandford, NASA Ames Research Center, Mountain View, California


O.

I personally love that paper by Sanford! It almost makes me want to replace the usual apples-and-oranges objection with more far more dissimilar comparisons like:

"Whoa! That's like comparing apples with no-longer-manufactured lawn darts!"... or

"Isn't that like comparing early retirement with oranges?"... or

"Hey, that's like comparing twelve long years on the calendar with bright red!"

While the logic truly holds up much better, somehow the message initially gets lost in that far greater disparity. That psychological term "cognitive accessibility" comes to mind. Can you imagine the initially-puzzled expressions on peoples' faces if we used far more logically-sound wording and frequently changed it up? So apples and oranges it is!

I always thought the "apples and oranges" statement mean to point out fact that there are similarities confusing us, and causing this mistaken comparison. First time I hear it, I thought: well, what's wrong with that? They're both fruit, and round, and sweetish...
It's not like comparing apples and cucumbers... or radishes and books.
More like comparing monkeys and orangutans...
But apples and oranges is best.
O.

ozij wrote:I always thought the "apples and oranges" statement mean to point out fact that there are similarities confusing us, and causing this mistaken comparison.

That's the best and most logical rationale for using apples and oranges IMO.

That underlying fruity mix of both similarities and differences probably lends great potential for perceptual disparity, similar to the half-empty or half-full glass of water analogy. I'll usually start the day thinking the glass of water is unquestionably half full. But by the end of the week the evaporative effect sometimes has me believing the glass of water in all likelihood started half empty---or filled to the brim---and the situation subtly deteriorated over time.

Those two perceptions are neither mutually exclusive nor unalterably static to the fluid realist.

Wow, this is getting deep......

Rooster, as far as materials in a heated humidifer go, here is what I think, based on my own IntelliPAP HH.

Materials in the HH tank are plastic (probably polycarbonate), stainless steel and silicone rubber.

Stainless steel (don't know what alloy was used) probably will outlast every other component in the tank. Due to the microscopic roughness of most metal parts, it could possibly serve as a place where bacteria could grow, provided there was bacteria and 'food' in the tank.

The polycarbonate is probably pretty inert, too. But over time, I suspect that it leaches material into the water. Eventually, it will probably crack more from mechanical stress than from damage from the water. But I have seen water do funny things to some plastics (polystyrene?) over long periods of time. I also would expect this material to etch a little with time, and possibly provide a place for bacteria or maybe fungi growth, again provided that an organism and growth media were present.

Silicone is interesting stuff. it is highly resistant to most chemicals. There was one spot where there was silicone rubber in the transmitter system I was mentioning earlier. it stood up to low pressure steam without problems, and was one of the very few materials in the system that did. That said, I have seen the silicone in my HH, which is used as a gasket, swell slightly. It might be absorbing some water. This gasket material is a softer rubber than what is in a typical mask seal. I have also noticed that this silicone rubber can absorb oil, but I will discuss this problem in a future post about masks.

Pardon me for skipping a couple pages, but I want to add my perspective from being in the heating, cooling and ventilation business. Our *PAP machines are a miniature furnace or air conditioner. I am not fond of the filter on my new ResMed machine as the material is the same as we sell by the roll. I'd say that with the material cost is in much less than a penny, and is also considered just a basic filter material intended only to protect the equipment from larger airborne dirt particles. In my house I have a near HEPA whole house filter and while it has kept the blower in my furnace immaculate the last 12 years, I can see a build-up of micro dust on the diffusers that I have to vacuum clean from time to time.

My point is that some nasty stuff can be sucked in and pass through and over the humidifier, however, it is stuff that we'd be breathing regardless. With the warmer weather, I've been opening the house at night for "fresh" air, but it really is dirtier air as my window screen is a poor filter compared to my furnace filter which I run 24/7.

My side point is that I would expect a much better filter from ResMed. Granted, a better filter has increased resistance to airflow but that can be overcome by increasing the surface area of it. I'd be interested in looking at the cleanliness of some impellers after several years of use.

Velbor wrote:
I am disturbed by the way in which several of the principles on "both sides" in this conversation, who are clearly highly educated, have used scientific concepts and terminology as blunt weapons with which to cudgel their opponents. Velbor

As one of the "principles" in this conversation who is being accused of CUDGELING a fellow-monkey whom I consider a dear primate pal . . . I plead TOTAL INNOCENCE based on my 20-30 years of untreated OSA that has left me with multiple areas of dead brain tissue, according to our esteemed Dr. Park

And now . . . I'm off to enjoy a luscious fruit cocktail snack of assorted apples, oranges, and bananas This forum makes me hungry.

Joy

SWS wrote:
At Evolutionary Midpoint: Cleaning the
CPAP humidifier down by the river.

Thought this GEM needed to be cross-posted . . .
Now this is what I'd call "reasonable cleaning"

Joy

I have had a cough for a couple of weeks. I now have a wheezing in my lungs or it sound like it is coming from there.
I was going to sleep in a chair last night when I started to put my mask on. I saw it was dirty also with some black around the creases where it snaps together. Now I fear it my cough /wheezing us due to not cleaning the mask. Will it get better on its own or do I need to see a dr. I will have surgery on my knee Friday.

The first thing you need to do is replace your mask. You can figure out if you can clean it later but you need to eliminate your exposure to the mildew growing in it.

Next you need to contact your doctor and explain what is going on. Your surgery may be postponed or not but that is a decision for a medical professional.

How can anyone (even if we were doctors, which we are certainly not) possibly tell you that you'll get better without knowing anything at all about you, let alone examining or testing you!

Cstucke wrote:I have had a cough for a couple of weeks. I now have a wheezing in my lungs or it sound like it is coming from there.
I was going to sleep in a chair last night when I started to put my mask on. I saw it was dirty also with some black around the creases where it snaps together. Now I fear it my cough /wheezing us due to not cleaning the mask. Will it get better on its own or do I need to see a dr. I will have surgery on my knee Friday.

Please register for an ID and fill in the equipment on your profile. There's a link in my signature to help you figure this out.

We need to know what kind of mask you have to help you figure out how to clean it properly.

What mask do you have and how do you clean it?