CPAPtalk.com

El Pap wrote:Oops, forgot to type my username. The above comment is mine. (I guess I should register for this forum, huh?)

Yep, and welcome!

Hawthorne wrote:
It almost suggests that machines can be as individual as masks. If that is true, then how would a machine be chosen by the doctor or the individual? What would be the criteria and who would set the criteria?

I know that all machines (especially autos with their different algorithms) report differently for different people but, do they also influence the effectiveness of therapy for different individuals that much?

Absolutely. The people who wrote the algorithms are attempting to analyse people's breathing patterns, and to conclude, from that analysis, what the present breath means in the context of what preceded it. Now, the analysis may be spot on for part of the population, and way off for another part - some machines are better for some people.
I doubt knowledge is developed enough for doctors to be able to figure out the criteria.
O.

DeVilbiss Marketing here - as usual we are gaining much needed insights from monitoring message boards such as this. In fact, we have been monitoring these message boards over the years and noting features which needed to be addresses. It was this insight, as well as additional research, that created the IntelliPAP platform. It is our hope to continually enhance our IntelliPAP to meet the needs of you and your fellow CPAP users.

Based on the feedback of the Product Challenge, as well as some comments within this thread, we are addressing the backlit light issue. As such, I would like to pose a question - currently, the backlight is bright for one minute after the unit is first turned on or after any key press during operation and then it dims down to a lower level. Would you prefer the the lower level light turns off after a period of time OR would you prefer the option of choosing whether you want it to remain at that lower level or turn off all together.

Please keep the comments coming - we need your input to deliver a product that best suits your needs and requirements.

Thank you

It's nice to here from you -
I have a machine on which the light turns off completely after about a minute or so - and I like it like that. For me an "off or dim" option would be superflous.
IMO, people with sleep problems should not spent their time watching clocks - or their cpap machines.
O.

Many people on this forum complain about the terrible blue lights on the M Series machines.

I never see them, except if I am going into the therapy menu to change something.

When I hit the bed for the night, I don't watch clocks or a cpap machine! Whether there are lights of any colour or type or whether they stay on all night or go out or dim, makes no difference to me. I just don't see them!

Oh, wait, I do see them in the morning or whenever I reach to turn the machine off. Because they are on, I can hit the middle (on/off) button on my machine, without thought because the lights are on!

DeVilbiss Marketing wrote: Would you prefer the the lower level light turns off after a period of time OR would you prefer the option of choosing whether you want it to remain at that lower level or turn off all together.

I would prefer to have the option. Even though I personally prefer a dark room and would choose to turn it off, I can see how others not bothered by the dim illumination level might want it on to more easily find the buttons or read the display.

Maybe the Intellipap requires a snore to respond with pressure to an event. I know some of the other manufacturers make there algorithms public, and they have been discussed at length here. Devilbiss may want to make their algorithm available in order to allow some of those here knowledgable enough to offer their comments.

Georgio

Georgio wrote:Quoting from the Owner's Manual, "The DeVilbiss Intellipap Auto Adjust System automatically adjusts air pressure by measuring your snoring and breathing patterns on a breath-by-breath basis, and compensating to meet your pressure needs. Your breathing patterns are continuously analyzed, stored and used to make any pressure adjustment."

I guess I'm reading into this that if it, "measures...your breathing pattern...(this would include exhale?) ...continuously analyzes and makes pressure adjustments", that would include the exhalation portion of your breathing. Not sure. It does not exhale as easily as A-Flex on 3, however it does seem to know you are exhaling....and make compensation....(my guestimate).

Georgio

From that description, I take it that it's operating as an auto-pap, just as any other auto-pap. I see nothing to indicate that it adjusts pressure just for the exhale. So it has no expiration relief. The manual's wording could have been clearer!

DeVilbiss Marketing wrote:DeVilbiss Marketing here - as usual we are gaining much needed insights from monitoring message boards such as this. In fact, we have been monitoring these message boards over the years and noting features which needed to be addresses. It was this insight, as well as additional research, that created the IntelliPAP platform. It is our hope to continually enhance our IntelliPAP to meet the needs of you and your fellow CPAP users.

WOW

Full marks to DeVilbiss. I hope all your competition is watching, too!

Hose_Head wrote:

DeVilbiss Marketing wrote:DeVilbiss Marketing here - as usual we are gaining much needed insights from monitoring message boards such as this. In fact, we have been monitoring these message boards over the years and noting features which needed to be addresses. It was this insight, as well as additional research, that created the IntelliPAP platform. It is our hope to continually enhance our IntelliPAP to meet the needs of you and your fellow CPAP users.

WOW

Full marks to DeVilbiss. I hope all your competition is watching, too!

My congratulations to DeVilbiss for being the first PAP machine manufacturer to enter a new era of highly-interactive customer "e-focus". Not just a web site with a few traditional phone numbers and email addresses, but a real genuine town-hall style visit to a PAP machine-user's message board...

That's history in the making, folks!

I agree wholeheartedly!!! I am so impressed that you care enough not just to monitor these forums but for actually taking our comments to heart and DOING something about them to enhance your products. THANKS, DeVilBiss for realizing who your end-customers, the USERS, of your products really are!!! I wish you well and MUCH success in getting thru to the local DME suppliers since so many of new CPAP users still rely on insurance to purchase their xPAPs and equipment. And congratulations on your IntelliPAP Auto winning the challenge!!!

DeVilbiss Marketing wrote:DeVilbiss Marketing here - as usual we are gaining much needed insights from monitoring message boards such as this. In fact, we have been monitoring these message boards over the years and noting features which needed to be addresses. It was this insight, as well as additional research, that created the IntelliPAP platform. It is our hope to continually enhance our IntelliPAP to meet the needs of you and your fellow CPAP users.

Based on the feedback of the Product Challenge, as well as some comments within this thread, we are addressing the backlit light issue. As such, I would like to pose a question - currently, the backlight is bright for one minute after the unit is first turned on or after any key press during operation and then it dims down to a lower level. Would you prefer the the lower level light turns off after a period of time OR would you prefer the option of choosing whether you want it to remain at that lower level or turn off all together.

Please keep the comments coming - we need your input to deliver a product that best suits your needs and requirements.

Thank you

OK Assuming this is Deilbliss - Please post your algorithim details. Improve the reports. Fix it so that when you are in the menu the blower isn't on. Put some real rubber feet on the bottom. Get some exhale relief. Love the long power chord and the buttons. Like the Sandman display a lot better. Really neat carry bag. Incorporate the smartlink module brains as part of the machine without too much size change. The algorithim needs work. All intellipaps should display ai,hi,leak by the day without a smartlink module and you should be able to scroll through many days on the screen.

You almost had a home run...

ozij wrote: Absolutely. The people who wrote the algorithms are attempting to analyse people's breathing patterns, and to conclude, from that analysis, what the present breath means in the context of what preceded it. Now, the analysis may be spot on for part of the population, and way off for another part - some machines are better for some people.
I doubt knowledge is developed enough for doctors to be able to figure out the criteria.
O.

Hi O,

I agree wholeheartedly! I don't believe that sleep apnea is a single condition - or at the very least it has many variations. I'm not sure how well a single machine could adequately address all of the variations without being the size of a Sherman tank (perhaps someday...)

Good for DeVilbiss for listening to users and trying to improve their technology and for working with Johnny Goodman on setting up this challenge. I don't agree with folks who complain that it's not a scientifically designed trial. I'm involved in many of many of those and there would be huge (and expensive) issues in setting up a clinical trial that would be meaningful for a product that is so prone to individual likes and dislikes.

For the time being, I'll stick with my Sandman Auto because of my runaway centrals which the Sandman handles beautifully. I have mine on Auto mode and now that I've found the best "bottom" pressure, it rarely varies much. I use a range of 10-20 and most nights it sticks solidly to 10 with an AHI <1. When I tried a range of 9-20, I'd typically run an average pressure of 10.2 - 10.5 with an AHI between 1 and 3. So, in this very unscientific experiment, it looks like upping my bottom pressure to my "sweet spot" is avoiding the time lag to raise pressure to resolve apneas and improving my therapy.

So, for those of you who had a very flat pressure line with the Intellipap, is it possible that with no pressure relief and the bottom pressure set accurately, that it makes sense?

As far as exhale relief - I used A-flex and C-flex on my Respironics and thought I needed it. However I haven't missed it on the Sandman at all. Haven't used the ramp feature either - but if I ever had problems with exhale relief, I'd probably try ramp first to see if I could fall asleep (and then stay asleep) without it.

Mindy

SharkBait, I performed the test last night with the M-Series.
First I turned off the A/flex and C/Flex and just used it in Auto mode. It was still very easy to breath out for me.
Then I turned took it off Auto and used it as straight Cpap and that was not easy to breathe with. It felt just like Cpap with no Exhale relief - which it was. I would never be able to sleep that way.

My findings would be that both the M-Series In Auto mode and the Intellipap are surprisingly easy on the exhale. I am not sure why or how the machine allows a much easier exhale but in my case it does or feels that way to me. Part of it may be that I am accustomed to cpap since I have used it for 2 years. My first year was with ResMed Elite S8 and the last was with the M-Series Auto. Now in the last month I have used the Intellipap.

So my machine of choice after the test is the Intellipap. I use it nightly, and will keep my m-series as my back up machine. It is great to have two very good machines for emergency.

MrSandman wrote:OK Assuming this is Deilbliss - Please post your algorithim details. Improve the reports. Fix it so that when you are in the menu the blower isn't on. Put some real rubber feet on the bottom. Get some exhale relief. Love the long power chord and the buttons. Like the Sandman display a lot better. Really neat carry bag. Incorporate the smartlink module brains as part of the machine without too much size change. The algorithim needs work. All intellipaps should display ai,hi,leak by the day without a smartlink module and you should be able to scroll through many days on the screen.

You almost had a home run...

MrSandman - Well stated and after testing the machine I agree. Even with out some of the other features, I'd trade my M Series for the current IntelliPAP IF IT HAD an A-flex feature! As it is, the M Series is still my primary machine.

John B.

MrSandman wrote: Fix it so that when you are in the menu the blower isn't on.

Just a clarification here. You CAN go into the SmartLink menu without the blower running by simultaneously pressing the <-- and --> keys while the machine is off. This is the menu were you check your 1, 7, and 30 day averages for AHI, pressure, leak, etc. -- the one you are likely to use on a regular basis. Yes, the blower runs when you go into the clinical setup menu, but that's not a menu you are likely to use very frequently.