CPAPtalk.com

Snoredog wrote:"esq" means esquire or attorney. Makes sense it was an attorney that started the thread about legality, they have nothing better to do, if he isn't licensed he is just masquerading as one.

I suspect he will show up on talkaboutsleep next. What did they used to refer to those kind as? has something to do with ambulance if not mistaken.

Okay what is sad about a bus load attorneys going off a cliff?

yep, you guessed it, one empty seat.

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=34237

But, at least he's arguing for the "defense".

Den

The other site isn't so bad and there are a lot of very helpful members posting good info. Unfortunately, there are a few arrogant individuals who can't hide their contempt for those who would dare take full control of their therapy. One of the mods in particular, practically brags that she doesn't have a full data capable xpap and that no one really needs one to get good treatment, The insistence that it is illegal to change one's own xpap settings is just plain silly. To compare the dangers of pressure changes to something like changing one's daily heart medicine dosage is ridiculous. I can sort of understand the policy on not giving out detailed information on how to change an xpaps settings, as the site is run by an association which includes sleep docs, RTs and DME folks. I personally believe in running everything I do with my treatment past my doc, just for a 2nd learned opinion if nothing else. Still, the condescending manner in which a few of the members and mods on the other site take folks to task for asking and/or talking about changing pressures, has just left me cold.

But hey what do I really know? Maybe I am just missing whatever point it is that they are attempting to make.

Goofproof wrote:I bought a Binford gas powered leaf blower last week, it had a tag on it, warning that it was against the law to push the throttle past idle speed and that trees could sue you if you blew their leaves. What a law to pass just before Fall. Jim

NOW here is SOMETHING to WORRY ABOUT!!



BERT

There is a comparable argument that creeps up on animal-themed forums where some people will say it is illegal to give your own pets vaccines. It is not illegal to give your own pets vaccines, but it is illegal to give someone else's animals vaccines, as then "supposedly" you are doing what only a licensed veterinarian can do. So I figure it's okay to change your own prescribed CPAP settings, but you can't change someone else's...no harm in discussing the pro's, con's how-to's about doing it though.

I thought suggesting it was illegal to change our own settings was extreme view and a position designed to perhaps instill fear in those doing so.

Where are the xPAP Cops? Bring them on! Slap me with the 2x4!

<extends hands> Go ahead, arrest me and put the cuffs on for fiddling with my settings that have resulted in better therapy.

looking4zzzz wrote:There is a comparable argument that creeps up on animal-themed forums where some people will say it is illegal to give your own pets vaccines. It is not illegal to give your own pets vaccines, but it is illegal to give someone else's animals vaccines, as then "supposedly" you are doing what only a licensed veterinarian can do. So I figure it's okay to change your own prescribed CPAP settings, but you can't change someone else's...no harm in discussing the pro's, con's how-to's about doing it though.

Exactly, "looking." Good point.

One of my favorite pastimes to indiscriminately change peoples XPAP settings, dammit.

Another personal freedom lost.

Am I reading the below quote from the other forum correctly? It seems to be saying the centrals are triggered by having O2 levels above what's needed so the body simply doesn't take a breath. Makes sense if the APAP doesn't raise pressure for them, but why then, are they considered a bad thing?

Quote from The Other Forum:
=====================================
Finally (whew, for now I think!) here is how high pressures cause central apneas. I am really out of time and have to get back to my life. But if you want confirmation, do a literature review here, PubMed, or ask any competent physician accredited in sleep disorders:

The major signal to breath is a rise in carbon dioxide levels. CO2 and H+ concentration (which refers to pH and related to the level of CO2) levels in cerebral spinal fluid are detected by a chemoreceptor in the brain’s medulla called the Central Chemoreceptor. Additionally, an increase in blood CO2 is detected by the Peripheral Chemoreceptors located in the aorta and carotid arteries (called the aorta and carotid bodies). The peripheral chemoreceptors also detect O2 levels.

If a CPAP pressure is too high, then CO2 is literally “blown off” and the signal to the brain to breath is removed until either the oxygen level drops to a trigger level or the CO2 level rises again. Here are the blood levels (called the Threshold) that trigger the response to breath:

The threshold pO2 for activation is 60 - 80 mmHg with normal arterial pO2 about 95 mmHg. Any elevation of pCO2 above a normal value of 40 mmHg, or a decrease in pH below 7.4 causes chemoreceptor firing.

Vicki
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When I'm feeling a bit mavericky, I like to cut the tags off of my furniture and mess with my cpap settings.

eutychus wrote:When I'm feeling a bit mavericky, I like to cut the tags off of my furniture and mess with my cpap settings.

HOLY SMOKES!!!!......you're REALLY looking to get in trouble, aren't you?

Den

I like to try and get 12 items through the 10 items or less lane.

I'm a rebel.

I have my 10 year old make the changes, then when she is arrested I will just pay to have her juvenile record expunged when she is 18!

I'm as worried about getting busted for changing the pressure on my machine as I am about ripping the tag off my mattress. Haven't you noticed, the jails are full of tag rippers.

Ed

O kay I have a question Where does this leave my doctor that wrote the prescription
so that I could get the instructions to change my pressure and the DME for telling me
I needed it so he could give them to me.. Are we all headed for the slammer?

P S I love you all sense of humor. incontinence INDEED.

Links to Central Apnea discussions
viewtopic.php?p=22702

One of my favorite quotes in those links is this one, written by an RRT/RPSGT credentialed manager of an accredited sleep lab:

viewtopic.php?t=14225
Page 2

The phenomena of pressure-induced central apneas is tossed around far too freely. The vast majority of people do not get centrals because of ultra-therapeutic CPAP levels. BiLevel, Pressure Support (PSV) and Proportional Assist (PAV) Ventilation are another matter. You need some mechanism to drive the pCO2 below the sleeping apneic threshold, and plain old CPAP rarely is able to do that. OK, if you wanna argue that CPAP increases base lung volume (Functional Residual Capacity)(FRC), and since that increases gas exchange, some people can generate centrals that way, fine. But it's not as many as you might think.
SAG

SAG is "StillAnotherGuest" on this message board, and was a moderator nicknamed "sleepydave" on that other board.