CPAPtalk.com

rock and roll wrote:Tomjax


If mother nature worked just fine thnis websight would not exist and not a one of us would be dealing with and treating all the illnesses that befall us. That is a rediculous thing to say. Mother nature does not account for the stress of the world today, and if left to mother nature our life spans would go back to 30 years as being old. I am alive here sir as a result of medications.


I take it that when companies advertise 9 out of 10 doctors endorse something youo are always on the side of the 1.

I think I am not opposed to 9 of 10 drugs out today.
Most of the drugs you refer to are those that prolong life and is the result of research.
When it comes to antibiotics, I think perhaps 80 pct outside of hospitals are unnecessary and do more harm than good overall.
I think a very high percentage of pain and anxiety and sleep aids are unnecessary and are abused- 60 to 70 pct off the top of my head.

I hope you would give me a little credit for the more than 35 years I spent as a pharmacist observing every facet of people and their meds. I think I have a valid perspective on these. It is amusing to hear the rationalization and denial people use to take some of their meds. I have heard them all and know all the tricks.
One of my favorites is that "my doc gave it to me, so it must be safe"
I seem to recall a recent report that perhaps more than 35 pct of americans are on some type of sleep aid.
The meds are the problem in most cases and cause the insomnia they are supposed to treat.
Most insomnia is the result of our poor health habits and the stresses we allow ourselves to have.

I have used Lunesta, I get about 5-6 hours out of 3 mgs. Do not feel that you should NEVER take anything to help you fall sleep. There are many fortunate people on the board that are just plain lucky that they can fall asleep, sustain sleep, and stay asleep. Many other medical conditions, medications, personal circumstances, lifestyle choices preclude MANY of us who cannot fall asleep without aid (in the form of medicine). I can only tell you from my personal experience, GO THROUGH MENOPAUSE, and you too will not sleep right for years....
Ambien puts you in a deeper sleep, groggier morning, and in my husband's case, disoriented and forgetful. For me, I slept, but got up feeling lousy and fuzzy headed. I find that with Lunesta I don't feel this way. Also I do notice, that w/Lunesta I fall asleep faster, but not with that drugged feeling like Ambien. I

Point being, DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU! So many on here, criticize those of us who take sleep aides in whatever form (including someone's suggestion of SCOTCH).....!
When you can't sleep, no matter WHAT, are we supposed to stay awake, just to say WE DON"T TAKE MEDICINE? That is foolish and not healthy either. What would these lucky sleeping folks have us DO? Any suggestions on how to FALL ASLEEP, STAY ASLEEP are always welcome. And yes, we have darkened the room, made it cooler, listened to relaxation tapes, music, hypno therapy, ad nauseum, We certainly can read that any medicine has side effects. Read the tylenol bottle lately? Driven a car, flown in a plane, risks are always always there!

This issue pops up from time to time, seems to split folks down the middle, DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU, and I have come to the point, that what gets you thru the night along with OSA, cpap, etc. is what helps you get thru THE night.

GZ
(not a drug rep, dr, druggist, DME, RT, and what other initials am I missing)!


[quote="tater pie"]I was just wondering if anyone out there had used Lunesta (the sleep aid)? I had turbinate reduction surgery done and the ENT prescribed it to help me sleep. I noticed on the warning that comes with the prescription that people with sleep apnea should be cautious using this drug. He prescribed the 2 mg tablets and said to cut one in half first and try it. Has anybody out there used it?

Tomjax, in your first post you said you weren't gonna start up this issue again and then reposted. Go figure. On the ambien issue, I have only tried restoril which i am using now. Seems to work fine. But from what I read lunesta seems to be the least troublrsome. Of course, every drug affects ppl differntly. If anyone is taking wellbutrin for depression, avoid it after noon. It will make it harderer to sleep.This may be true with others.

tomjax wrote:

rock and roll wrote:Tomjax


If mother nature worked just fine thnis websight would not exist and not a one of us would be dealing with and treating all the illnesses that befall us. That is a rediculous thing to say. Mother nature does not account for the stress of the world today, and if left to mother nature our life spans would go back to 30 years as being old. I am alive here sir as a result of medications.


I take it that when companies advertise 9 out of 10 doctors endorse something youo are always on the side of the 1.

I think I am not opposed to 9 of 10 drugs out today.
Most of the drugs you refer to are those that prolong life and is the result of research.
When it comes to antibiotics, I think perhaps 80 pct outside of hospitals are unnecessary and do more harm than good overall.
I think a very high percentage of pain and anxiety and sleep aids are unnecessary and are abused- 60 to 70 pct off the top of my head.

I hope you would give me a little credit for the more than 35 years I spent as a pharmacist observing every facet of people and their meds. I think I have a valid perspective on these. It is amusing to hear the rationalization and denial people use to take some of their meds. I have heard them all and know all the tricks.
One of my favorites is that "my doc gave it to me, so it must be safe"
I seem to recall a recent report that perhaps more than 35 pct of americans are on some type of sleep aid.
The meds are the problem in most cases and cause the insomnia they are supposed to treat.
Most insomnia is the result of our poor health habits and the stresses we allow ourselves to have.

I can relate to this debate so much. I have suffered from Depression since I was 18. I have had 4 major episodes. All I can tell you tha it is painful to go through it. The most paiful one was my first experience. It occured when I came to US for study. The culture shock along with my sheltered life back home crushed me. The worst thing was I did not know what was happening to me. I was getting F's and incompletes in my classes, even though I was a top student back home.
The main symptom of my depression is insomnia. It just gets worst and worst when I can't sleep. I was taking Dalmane as a sleep aid when I started working. It was like water on fire. I could get some sleep and get my work done. I reduced the dosage from 30 mg to about 8 mg in the next 15 years and was able to work and be good at it.
My new doctor (the old one passed on) 4 years ago told me clearly that taking benzos for such a long time for anything is not a good idea and clearly told me that he did not want to lose his license if something happens to me. I was very angry as why he put his license before the well being of his patient.
My therapist refered me to the sleep center and was diagnosed with moderate sleep apnea with the pressure of 8. I have been using the CPAP for several months with help and support from this group.
Me and my psychiatrist tried all kinds of anti depressant to find the magic pill that alleviates my depression. Nothing has worked to the extent that works for some people. I am now on Paxil and that seems to be the best one for me so far. I also switched to Lunesta and it works better for me than Ambien by making me feel less groggy and disoriented. I also have a condition called Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome where my natural sleep/wake cycle is 3-11 am. Light exposure and Melatonin seems to help and improve the condition, but there is no real treatment for it.
Life has sure been challenging and I have tried my best to have a good one. I sure don't believe that medication is the only answer to Insomnia and depression, but if you have a chemical imbalane in the brain, it has to be treated by medication.
Finding all the underlying conditions and treating them, knowing yourself and who you are and what you want, knowing how your past has affected you and cause certain pains are all so important and helpful. It is just not as simple as weather medication is good or bad.
Sorry to be so long winded.
Cheers.

Snamvar-if paxil does not work out i would try wellbutrin if you haven't. Most ppl I have talked to with depression have had great success with this. I sure liked it best. Good luck.

A little known off-label use of antidepressants is for hotflashes in menopausal or post-menopausal women. Personally, I am on Cymbalta which is a relatively new one I understand. For this use it is very low dose, but I also recently learned that anti-depressants can affect deep sleep. No wonder so many people on these have sleep problems.

And to add to this vicious circle, sleep apnea can CAUSE depression.

On the upside, CPAP can get rid of depression. Just as it can so many other illnesses like hypercholesterol, diabetes, impotency, high blood pressure.

The LTE someone mentioned, are called APNEAS, this is when your throat closes up. It is not necessarily from you relaxing more when you take a sleep med. it is from a number of things, mostly Obstructive Sleep Apnea brought about by a lax soft palate, large tonsils, adenoids, uvula, deviated septums and a genetically small oral cavity. And it is very hereditary. If you parent has Sleep Apnea there is a very good chance of you having it. If you have it there is a very good chance of your children having it --and it can happen at any age from birth on.

I'm currently on Ambien but the whole dose made me too groggy if I had to get up in the middle of the night and I fell and ended up bruising the entire side of my face badly, but, Boy, did I sleep! When I had this "event" happen, I cut back to 1/2 tablet and it is working great. No night-time drugginess, and I still get about 6-7 hours of sleep.

I tried Melatonin and a single pill left me groggy all morning, so, don't tell me about how great "natural" products are. Even half a caplet did the same thing, so I quit them.

I took Benedryl or Tylenol PM which has benedryl as the active ingredient off and on for years for getting to sleep. Found out from my Sleep Doctor that, yes, with this type of thing you will sleep but you still don't get the restorative deep sleep. And one benedryl was all I needed to sleep pretty much 8 hours. But I was still tired. Now I know why.

Now, I have started on Xyrem to get to sleep and achieve deep sleep. I won't have to take Ambien anymore at all.

Yes, I said I would avoid this discussion, but I would like to clarify a few things.
There are times when a sleep aid is proper and should be used. AGAIN I say, read the package insert on Ambien to better understand.
I got a script for Ambien last year when I was going to England. It was a true lifesaver! I got 30 and have taken 5 mg about 6 times. I take one sometimes when I go to visit my mom. Cant stand her bed!

A certain percent of those given narcotics, anxiolytics, or sleep aids have a tendency to get dependent on them and this is where the problem comes in.

One place to get a perspective on this is in a recovery center. These arguements simply do not hold water.
One very telling test for a person who gets dependent is in his/her reaction to being questioned about using them. The greater they protest and rationalize, the more likely they are dependent on them.
Same true for alcohol.

Again I say to read up on rebound insomnia. The pills are the problem, not the solution.

Why are they not prescribed in prisons? Because they are NOT NEEDED.

Assuming Michael Jackson is convicted and goes to prison, will the sleep time he gets the nex ten years be more, less, or the same as he gets now?

Michael Jackson will learn that it is better to give than to recieve.

:twis ted:

loonlvr wrote:Snamvar-if paxil does not work out i would try wellbutrin if you haven't. Most ppl I have talked to with depression have had great success with this. I sure liked it best. Good luck.

I also tried it for a period of time and it was ok. For some people, finding the right pill has been the difference between night and day. Not for me

sorry,
that was me.

I doubt that Michael will get any sleep for a long, long time in prison

I agree that sleep aids are over prescibed. But to make a blanket statement that mother nature is the best way is not at all realistic and you have had a good 35 year career with "aiding" mother nature. I feel that a dependance to Ambien is better than being dead behind the wheel or being so sleep deprived that one cannmot function. I was in such a state and I bless the doctor that put me on Ambian and gave my life back to me. I DON'T USE IT ALL THE TIME. But I do use it when mother nature takes a hike and during stressful times when I know I won't sleep. I know I will take it with me when I go to England and China next month.

Tomjax, I give you credit for your 35 years. I don't have to agree with you. I have had some morons for doctors that are very educated and have practiced for years and I certainly did not listen to them, and in this case I think you either have not been in my shoes and others that NEED sleep aides to function and therefore are being judgemental, or somewhere in your career path you missed that class on compassion.IMHO

I have pretty bad OSA but cannot tolerate CPAP.

I find that a half tab of 3mg Lunesta (very low dose) helps a great deal to deliver a restful night sleep and not wake up multiple times, nor end up with a headache in the morning. Normal sleep meds deliver a bad headache which probably translates into OSA-induced oxygen deprivation at some point during the night. But I feel much better with my low-dose Lunesta in comparison.

I have also tried a similar low dose of Ambien, and it has a similar effect to Lunesta, but tends to deliver darker dreams than Lunesta.

Overall, I think in a low dose, Lunesta can help OSA sufferers get proper rest without risking making the OSA condition worse. Or at least that has ben my experience to date.

--instead of cpap?
It would be far preferable to use a drug to help you USE CPAP.
Without cpap, your apnea is UNTREATED--end of story.