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Snoredog wrote: While the Aflex works great, it is the most idiotic designed machine on the market for actual use by a patient.

What do you mean by this?

Hey RG,

Where do I get these elbows?

Girlsaylor

girlsaylor wrote:Hey RG,

Where do I get these elbows?

Girlsaylor

"Available in the plumbing parts section of Lowes, Home Depot and other stores that carry hardware."

OK RG, thanks! I thought this was a connector sold by cpap vendors or something...hahahaha

girlsaylor

I’ve used the M- series with heated humidifier since Nov. 2006. I like it a lot and have never had any trouble with the humidifier. I take it apart to clean every 3 months or so. I’ve always watched the seal when I close it, and if it twists, I redo it. A little water on the seal helps it to seal properly. I prefer the integrated humidifier and its clean look to the look of an added on HC 150 that would make my nightstand look like a science lab…

I've not tried the HC150 -- YET!!!!

I have the Mseries integrated HH and it seems to work ok for me now.
I don't clean it out regularly so I don't disassemble the tank. I do rinse it out occasionally without disassembly. The first tank I had was a different story -- I cleaned it regularly, disassembled it regularly, and after 3 months it started to leak. Fortunately my insurance company provides coverage for a new HH tank every 3 months, so I usually have a spare around here somewhere.
I don't run out of water because I only use it at a setting of 2, but doing so I need to refill it each night (it uses a little more than 1/2) and at times I don't use it except for the passover effect.

I am considering retiring the integrated HH to travel only (though I generally leave it home when I travel), and get the HC150 for home use.

cheers
goose

I am not quoting the numbers exactly because I haven't seen a rep lately, but I think that the F&P Humidifiers with their heated hoses deliver 33% (I think, but I can't locate the study right now.) humidity at the mask which according to them is the exact amount of humidity needed for true humidity comfort for patients. Other humidifiers, even with a heated hose don't come close to that. That is their main selling point. I have had patients that suffered with integrated humidifiers and do wonderfully on a F&P humidifier. Their studies seem legit and I will fill in details when I can find the study.

I am also considering getting one of these, but I have a question. I do not necessarily want to separate my M series machine (APAP) from the integrated humidifier (kind of phobic about not being able to put it back to together). Does anyone see a problem with attaching the machine with the integrated humidifier in passover to the stand alone humidifier and then that to the hose/mask assembly?

TM

KansasRT wrote:I am not quoting the numbers exactly .... but I think that the F&P Humidifiers with their heated hoses deliver 33% (I think, but I can't locate the study right now.) humidity at the mask which according to them is the exact amount of humidity needed for true humidity comfort for patients. Other humidifiers, even with a heated hose don't come close to that. .... I will fill in details when I can find the study.

I would be very interested in the details of this study.

Any practical discussion of humidity levels needs to refer to RELATIVE humidity with respect to some meaningful TEMPERATURE.

A humidifier which is producing rainout in the tubing is, by definition, delivering almost 100% RELATIVE humidity at the mask, with respect to ROOM temperature. A heated hose system can deliver humidity levels which would be considered supersaturated with respect to room temperature, since it's functioning at higher than room temperature.

Perhaps the 33% figure you recall is the delivered relative humidity at core body temperature, 37 degrees C. The fancy high-tech equipment I use, designed for intubated patients, claims that air will be nearly fully saturated (44mg water per Liter of air) at body temperature if it leaves the humidification chamber at 37 degrees C (that's air temperature; water temperature would need to be higher, and in the HC150's the water does get considerably hotter), gets heated in the tubing to 39 degrees C (to prevent condensation), and cools to 37 degrees C by the time it reaches the patient. But for CPAP use, I find these air temperatures are uncomfortably high, and need to turn them down some.

No question that heated hose systems, be they the heated F&P tubes provided with their newer CPAP's, or add-ons such as the "Aussie Heated Hose" or the ingenious Repti heated hose system, not only prevent rainout, but thereby increase the ABSOLUTE humidity delivered to the sleeper!

Thanks for that information, KansasRT.

The only problem I'd have with getting the cpap machine made by Fisher & Paykel with its own integrated heated hose and its own F&P integrated humidifier is:

1. At this time F&P sells only "cpap"-- not autopap. I like using an autopap. I've heard they are coming out with an autopap, but I've also heard their first version autopaps will not have the integrated heated hose. I don't know that for a fact, though.

Also, it remains to be seen whether any software they might make will give any useful data. If their autopap records only "hours of use" to be viewed through the software, I sure wouldn't be interested at all.

2. F&P machines have no feature to give pressure relief when exhaling. I really like the comfort of less pressure when exhaling, a la Respironics' "A-flex" in their autopap and "C-Flex" in their cpap.

3. I don't doubt that the F&P cpap with its own heated hose and using its own F&P integrated humidifier puts out great humidification, more so than most other brands of humidifiers. The only integrated humidifier I liked as well as my separate F&P was the integrated humidifier the old pre-M "tank" Respironics REMstars used. That one, with my heated hose, gave me plenty of comfortable humidification...felt the same as what I get with the F&P humidifier.

But... since I use an F&P HC 150 humidifier and another brand of heated hose (the one from sleepzone.com.au) I think I'm getting every bit as much humidification as the 33% F&P spoke of with their integrated setup. My separate components setup certainly feels like plenty enough humidification and with no rainout whatsoever.

Bottom line for me is that I like not being tied to using only an F&P cpap machine in order to have a heated hose and an F&P humidifier. I can use my separate heated hose and my separate F&P HC 150 humidifier with ANY brand/model of cpap/autopap/bilevel machine I choose.

When the time comes to get another "heated hose" I'll probably get the Repti Heat cable. So far from reports on the message board, that heat cable seems to be doing as good a job as the Aussie heated hose, and a lot cheaper. I'll stick with the good old standalone F&P HC 150 humidifier, of course.

About the Repti heat cable:

Jan 12, 2008 subject: Cheap heated hose Topic started by p2pjunkie
viewtopic.php?t=27579

I am using a 10ft Repti Heated hose with an integrated HH on a Respironics M series BiPap connected to an HC150 - ALL connected to a power strip for pre-warming and easy OFF.

Yes I put water in both - had to turn both waaay down but I have had the HC150 filled w/water every nite since I got it. Certainly you could use the M series in passive or w/o water and just use the HC150. Before the HC150 I could not get thru the nite w/o running out of water.

NOTE: Respironics makes a swivel elbow which the DME usually doesn't give - unless you ask - to go on the back of the blower. If you read the M series manual it say it comes with ALL machines but the DME's don't let go of them UNLESS you ask. It really is a great working swivel elbow. The elbow is part of the package because the blower port comes out of the back of the machine - so don't let them charge you.

Before the weather cooled down (Nov. in CT) the integrated seemed to work OK but it never did feel warm even after running ALL nite but all water would be gone.

fwiw - I have noticed I would get rainout at the same settings more easily with a Comfort Classic Nasal than w/F&P 431/2 FFM.

ps. I added a control from an unused electric blanket to be able to vary the temp on the Repti Cable.

I know _ I know - so pray for me!!!

GumbyCT wrote:ps. I added a control from an unused electric blanket to be able to vary the temp on the Repti Cable.

I know _ I know - so pray for me!!!

I'm so SHOCKED (no pun intended!) that all I can say is... "Lordy, lordy!!!"

¡Buena suerte, Gumbito!

Willl definitely pray for you, Gumby

My Respironics APAP came with that elbow - at first I wondered what it was for so I left it in the case ....

Mindy

Anonymous wrote:I am also considering getting one of these, but I have a question. I do not necessarily want to separate my M series machine (APAP) from the integrated humidifier (kind of phobic about not being able to put it back to together). Does anyone see a problem with attaching the machine with the integrated humidifier in passover to the stand alone humidifier and then that to the hose/mask assembly?

TM

Because an APAP requires feedback for the auto algorithm ot work, setting up the airflow system with two reservoirs in series "may" affect the transient response back to the APAP machine's sensor ... your auto could detect false events or not detect them at all. You could just try it and see ... but I get the feeling that if you are phobic about disconnecting the HH to begin with, you probably have no business experimenting with your treatment.

mindy wrote:
My Respironics APAP came with that elbow - at first I wondered what it was for so I left it in the case ....

My first "M" Pro came with the elbow but when I got my replacement it did not have it. I figured the DME took it out. I raised half the roof and they finally came up with one that did not svivel. I was told Respronics quit putting them in the package because they leaked water at the swivel. The one from Lowes works better because the Respronics one is not quite 90 degrees.

Jerry