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Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:06 pm
by Liam1965
There wrote:And to keep this on topic - since I just replied and forgot to include this in that reply - I think a good rule of thumb is never to put anything in your body unless you know where it came from.
And if you're Richard Gere, not even then.

Liam, who knows the Richard Gere story is apocryphal, and now wonders if he should through apocryphal into the "words" thread...

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:15 pm
by Nitro Dan
I drink water filtered by Reverse Osmosis, so I also use it in my CPAP humidifier, it's cheaper to make then distilled water, and better for drinking.

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:34 am
by kctom
Obviously, you should always use the cleanest water possible in your humidifier. By clean I mean bacteria free.

Which is safest? Bottled water that contains no bacteria fighting chemicals and is tested, weeks or months, if at all, before you use it. Or tap water. In most large municipalities, the water is tested very frequently if not continually and the water contains chlorine that minimises or eliminates the growth of bacteria. You decide.

In most larger air-conditioning systems, city water is connected to the cooling system water in order to replenish water evaporated or loss. There should be a back-flow preventer that prevents cooling system water from flowing backwards in the city water. These should be checked frequently. Evidently, some people are not.

Tom

Re: Tap Water in your humidifier can kill you

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:12 pm
by gailzee
those of us local to this sad event, have followed the cpap connection with interest. I do understand that certain contaminants were found in the hospital and as of today are even handing out bottled water. They keep referencing the cpap machine. But nothing mentioned if this was the patient's machine, hospital's machine, connection to the Legionnaire's problem etc. Each day more questions than answers and a sad family on the news tonight. I'm sure there will be legal questions and finger pointing, but guess we can learn a lesson, if and when we have to use our ''own equipment--if permitted'' to, that we or family/friend of patient must be diligent in cleaning, but if we clean the hoses/masks/etc. with contaminated water in that very hospital, THEN WHAT?
Who'd know? After hearing this, I can hear the ''permission granted'' folks at any medical facility saying a big fat NO to anyone bringing in their own health systems.

Feel very sorry for this family, and if the hospital hadn't tested their water/???? this is a very large and well known facility, quite renowned but guess these failures can happen anywhere.

What would a patient do now, if one had to be admitted to the h hospital and needed the cpap from home? Who'd wash it, with what? I'd say besides our jammies and toothbrushes, we now have to haul distilled water to the hospital, huh?
Mikesus wrote:
Legionnaire's disease in water system eyed

BY ADAM LISBERG
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

State health officials are investigating whether the death of a Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center patient may have been caused by an outbreak of deadly Legionnaire's disease bacteria in the hospital's water system.

The upper Manhattan hospital turned off its faucets and brought in bottled water while it sterilized pipes in the 675-bed Milstein Hospital building after the tragic death.

But the patient's family believes the hospital has failed to do enough.

"If they knew they had a problem with the water, why didn't they tell us to use bottled water?" asked Neil Montesano, whose 63-year-old father, Richard, died April 13 shortly after entering the hospital with a heart condition.

Richard Montesano used a machine that sprayed water in his throat to combat sleep apnea, his family says, but the hospital never warned them to avoid tap water.

"Maybe more cases will come out now," said Neil Montesano, 33, one of the Tarrytown man's four children.

The city medical examiner ruled that Richard Montesano died of an infection after having a catheter placed in his arm, but is waiting for lab results to determine whether Legionnaire's was a factor, a spokeswoman said.

Joe DiMura, a spokesman for the state Health Department, said the state was aware of the case. "We are investigating," DiMura said.

Columbia Presbyterian spokeswoman Myrna Manners would not comment on Montesano's death, but said the medical center regularly monitored its water for the Legionnaire's bacteria and spent millions of dollars to eliminate it once it was found.

"We want to take all the necessary steps to ensure the safety of the water,"
she said. "Our patients are our highest priority."

Legionnaire's bacteria is found in the water systems of many large buildings.

It rarely causes infections or deaths, but it is a particular hazard in hospitals where patients with compromised immune systems are often vulnerable.

Montesano contracted a 103-degree fever in late March and was diagnosed with Legionnaire's disease after a March 31 blood test, his family said.

Maintenance workers removed every faucet in the Milstein building the weekend of April 9 and 10, then superheated the building's water supply to near boiling as part of the cleaning, Manners said.

The hospital also ran a special chlorination process and installed an ionization system to kill the bacteria, in addition to bringing in bottled water for drinking.

Manners said the hospital is still waiting for final test results on whether the bacteria is gone.

Originally published on April 20, 2005


Image

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Link to [url=https://www.cpap.com/listVideos.php?VGID=ALL]Video[/url]

Legioneers

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:28 pm
by tomjax
Not sure how this crept back in but the contaminated CPAP is pure BS-imho.

No way the legioneers could have oome from the hunidifier tank.
I thought this was a settled issue, but I am sure it will come back on occasion.

I even contacted the law firm and told them it was hopeless to blame the CPAP and explained why.
Never heard back.

Keep in mind the vulture lawyers will file pure BS cases.

I could be wrong


Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 5:00 pm
by dsm
Linda,

That machine is a very nice unit. It is the Tranquility Bilevel (they were taken over by Respironics).

It is very effective if not a bit noisy by comparison to more modern machines. These 1st came out in the late 1990s & are quite small. It is about 2/3 rds the size of a Sullivan Autoset-T, it is smaller than a Resmed spirit. Perhaps about as big overall as a modern Remstar (not the new M series).

This link shows 3 of the Tranquility models (Menu 2 sub-menu item 11).
http://www.internetage.com/cpapinfo/


In a way it is a pity that such a great and once advanced lil ole Bilevel CPAP machine, is being blamed for who ever it was that failed to use proper clean water (assuming that was the cause).

DSM

PS I always used boiled water - I dread the day some more crypto-sporidium finds its way into our local public water supply as it has in the past

http://www.jfk.herts.sch.uk/showcase/cr ... ypinfo.htm

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): cpap machine, respironics, resmed, clean

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): cpap machine, respironics, resmed, clean


Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 5:34 pm
by Guest
This is an old thread from April of '05 resurrected by SPAM.

Tap Water

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:29 pm
by Guest
I really don't see any need to get paranoid about using tap water, although I wouldn't suggest using it all the time. I use distilled water as recommended, but I have run out occasionally when travelling. I used tap water and did just fine. The key is to clean the equipment regularly, including the humidifier chamber. One could use the purest water available, and if you never clean it still get sick from it.


Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:59 pm
by OSAGuy
Mikesus, it seems to me that you are making a mountain out of a molehill. I use a heated humidifier on my APAP using distilled water and have had no problems. I have also used tap water occasionally if I run out of distilled water and don't want to run to the store right away. I do clean the humidifier, hose and mask weekly, and also wipe the mask off daily. Have bee doing that for three years. I also live in a very dry climate so during the winter use a whole house humidifier. Again, no problems, as I maintain it properly. I don;t see the risks you do, although if you go somewhere where the equipment is not maintained properly (or not maintained at all), you will undoubtedly have problems.


Colloidal silver in the humidifier

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:55 pm
by ghg
A friend of mine pours colloidal silver (30ppm) 50/50 with
distilled water into the humidifier. bugs will never grow
in the humidifier, the hose,
or mask with that. He claims it also keeps his asthmas and
pneunomias in check also. I put it in my bipap also.

Unlike a nebulizer, colloidal silver in the humidifier is going to
mostly just evaporate [the water] and leave the silver in
the pan. I suppose a ppm or two may actually make it into the
air stream, keeping the hose, mask, noze and lungs nearly
sterile. A test on a Mexican town's water system showed high
fecal coliform bacteria. 30ppb (thats parts per billion, not parts
per million) of silver ions were injected at the well and it killed
all the bacteria! I read someplace the EPA standard for silver
in drinking water is around 100ppb??? Lots better for U than
chlorine or fluorides...


So far, the silver working great in my Bipap auto as well.
Resmed & respironics FFMs.
--ghg


silver

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:48 pm
by tomjax
Your friend should stop reading the National Enquirer for his medical source.


This is pure BS, but then there is no law against stupidity.

Best part is "So far, the silver working great in my Bipap auto as well."
This totally defies critical thinking.
How can it affect a situation that does not exist???


Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:49 am
by Guest
Your friend should stop reading the National Enquirer for his medical source.


This is pure BS, but then there is no law against stupidity.

Best part is "So far, the silver working great in my Bipap auto as well."
This totally defies critical thinking.
How can it affect a situation that does not exist???
http://www.devicelink.com/mddi/archive/05/05/029.html

http://www.worldwidewounds.com/2004/nov ... sings.html

http://www.samsung.com/he/presscenter/p ... 109066.asp

http://www.silvermedicine.org

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Pars ... /6,890,953

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Pars ... PN/6838095

want more?

--ghg


Silver

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:30 am
by tomjax
The nameless guest has provided some excellent links on the established use of silver agents as an antimicrobial agent.
There is no question by me on the efficacy in some conditions.
It is used in newborn babies eyes.
It is invaluable in burn therapy and other conditions and works primarily as a protein denaturing agent.

The problem comes when one attempts to extrapolate this to a heated humidifier with some type of thinking that it may be of benefit in this case.
This is where the apples to oranges analogy simply fails by ESTABLISHED science.

There simply is no risk of infection being spread from the humidifier.

People come here and may be influenced by well intentioned, but poorly informed posters who may convey a degree of implicit authority.

This is what belongs in the National Enquirer.
This is an excellent case against nameless guest postings. In the future anyone could know the poster is uninformed and his/her postings have very suspect credibility.
Want more?
TOMJAX, not guest
Want more?


Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:39 am
by -SWS
I think this whole issue is the result of a misunderstanding. It's tap dancing inside your humidifier that can kill you, and not tap water. Fatal organ and tissue compression occurs when tap dancing inside a CPAP humidifier is foolishly attempted be inebriated hoseheads. Hope I clarified this whole confusing issue.

I could be wrong but I think ballet inside that humidifier chamber may be safe...


tap dancing

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:03 am
by tomjax
Finally, a welcome voice of reason.

You are correct, but you did not give the reason why.

TAP dancing inside a humidifier chamber can be problematic due to the metal taps on the shoes cracking the chamber.
This may be the problem with those who have leaking chambers.

Ballet is indeed safe because of the soft tips that will be safe.