CPAPtalk.com

Liam1965 wrote:

tomjax wrote:You could put every concievable pathogen it a humidifier and there would be NO danger of transmitting them and causing infection.
Just does not work this way folks.

Perhaps so, but I strongly advise NOT adding "Dr. Jack's Anthrax Pick-Me-Up CPAP Additive".

Liam, concerned that terrorists have infiltrated his heated humidifier reservoir.

"Dr. Jack's Anthrax Pick-Me-Up CPAP Additive"?

Hahahaha. You crack me up!


Linda, who wonders if the tap water in the humidifier might be a breeding ground for pesky mosquitoes?

-SWS wrote:The highly unlikely rainout scenario would not entail pathogens riding the airborne molecules. The most conducive albeit highly unlikely scenario would entail rainout first lining the surfaces with moisture. Then pathogens propagating out of the humidifier tank, along the moist life-sustaining surfaces until the live pathogen(s) sat, waiting for a fast downhill ride (like an evil microbial hitchhiker) onto a rolling, condensated drop that just so happens to pass by. Don't think a surface-borne microbe can propagate from the water tank, upward along a moist hose surface, and to the gravity-assisted roll-down point in a mere night, though. With a CPAP machine way higher than head level, an over-filled water tank/level, a very long sleep session, extremely cold ambient air... who knows?

Probably happens with about the same frequency that new universes are born.

SWS -- Are you SURE you weren't a surgeon in another life?


L.

LDuyer wrote: SWS -- Are you SURE you weren't a surgeon in another life?

No, but I sit on the couch and surf the web on my laptop as my wife watches CSI Miami.... and you can clearly see molecules and pathogens doing strange feats on that show.

The way I read the articles that Mikesus used to make his point indicates, at least to me, that the humidifiers in the articles are either room humidifiers or whole house humidifiers. A whole house humidifier has an open water tank so bacteria could easily infiltrate it. The articles do not state that the humidifiers are attached to cpap machines and to me that is a big difference.

Just my 2 cents,

Gilda

mommaw wrote:The way I read the articles that Mikesus used to make his point indicates, at least to me, that the humidifiers in the articles are either room humidifiers or whole house humidifiers. A whole house humidifier has an open water tank so bacteria could easily infiltrate it. The articles do not state that the humidifiers are attached to cpap machines and to me that is a big difference.

Just my 2 cents,

Gilda

This is true, with the exception that the water used in the humidifier was already contaminated.

This isn't a case of something growing in the humidifier, it is a case of using contaminated water. Once contaminated, it appears that it can happen and there are warnings to that end.

Do what you want. Personally I will ALWAYS use distilled water.

I also like the distinction someone made between those "ultra sonic, cold air" humidifiers vs the pass-over ones we have with xPAP.

Certainly the old hot-steam vaporizers didn't have the problem, the water, in rising to a boiling temp, would probably kill any pathogens. I suspect the "pass over humidification" probably IS fairly safe as stated by tomjax (although I'm not so sure I'd go as far as to assume total safety as he seems to).

But the ones I think would be the most dangerous would be the cool-mist ones, because basically all they do is pound the water with sound waves until a certain amount of it is pushed into the air and out of the machine, the same force perhaps applied to anything else that might be in the water.

But I'll stop now, because I'm arguing from theory, which is really only as good as my brain can operate, which at 7am on a Sunday isn't great.

Liam, foggy.

OK first I don't have a humidifier on my machine. So I have a question. Do you use distilled water to prevent calcium/ lime buildups on the machine, or is it because it's bacteria free?

Your tap water "should" be bacteria free, that's what the chlorination is for. If you have well water or if your live in a city like Buffalo with a 120 year old water system, two drops of rubbing (isopropyl) alcohol will kill any bacteria in a gallon of water.
Next problem. If you have a heated humidifier and leave the remaining water in it during the day, it would be a pretty conducive environment to start bacterial colonies, warm water, dark undisturbed place. Even if you give it a quick rinse be sure to use some germ killing soap.

i USED TAP WATER AT FIRST BECAUSE ALTHOUGH ITS REALLY GOOD, IT WAS LEAVING DEPOSITS IN MY PLASTIC RESEVOIR. i SWITCHED TO DISTILLED. iTS ONLY ABOUT 60 CENTS A GALLON. i WASH MY RESEVOIR OUT WITH HOT SOAPY WATER EVERY FEW DAYS. i DON'T REMOVE THE BOTTOM AS ITS TO MUCH WEAR AND TEAR ON VESSEL.

BuffaloAl wrote:OK first I don't have a humidifier on my machine. So I have a question. Do you use distilled water to prevent calcium/ lime buildups on the machine, or is it because it's bacteria free? ...

The buildup is the worst. I was bad and used tap right off. BIG MISTAKE!! In only a day or a few you find deposits in there so bad you'll start to wonder what that water is doing to your body!! Let it go bad enough, like I did, and you will be turned of by tap water for ANY reason, unless it's distilled. It was quite a revelation!

Linda

More Recent Study than Orec

The humidifiers must be properly cleaned and filled on a regular basis. If a humidifier is not cleaned properly, there is a risk of colonization and possible infection of the patient.10

sorry for the double post.

Mikesus,

Again I question, is the humidifier in the above article a room humidifier or attached to a cpap machine? While I do use only distilled water in my humidifier, I think you need to make a distinction as to what type of humidifier you are referring to! If you are not careful, you will have a lot of people turning off their cpap humidifiers because they are afraid of getting a bug from them. I do not believe that is your reason for all the post regarding humidifiers (the reason being to use ONLY distilled water) but some people may not see the difference between the two humidifiers (and there is a difference). Causing someone to turn off their humidifier and thus not have comfortable treatment, can lead to not using the cpap at all. IMO that is much more dangerous than speculating as to wether you can get a bug from your humidifier. I also believe that one does not use distilled water in a room humidifier, might not that also account for some of the contamination?

Again, just my opinion as I am no expert in any field, except maybe sticking my nose in too much.

Gilda

Click on the link, the title of that last reference is

Why humidity with CPAP?

So I think it is pretty obvious that that one is talking about CPAP. The others are talking about various types of humidification.

Again, the title of this thread is referring to the usage of tap water in humidifiers. I think it is a bit of a leap to think that someone will stop using CPAP because they think that using a humidifier can kill them.

I do think that if there is a possibility of harm, that a concern should be raised.

The initial article deals with water that is ALREADY contaminated. The hospital admitted as such, and treated the water system to get rid of it. This isn't a matter of stuff growing in the humidifier, it is a matter of spreading what was already there.

There is a single study that is quoted stating that it can't happen, but there is a lot of anecdotal evidence suggesting that it isn't as simple as that study made it out to be. The simple fact is that more studies need to be done, but in the meantime we should err on the side of caution. As was stated here a number of times, a gallon of distilled water is extremely cheap.

Of course if you don't believe that the bacteria can be transmitted via this method, feel free to fill your humidifier with standing water, tap water, brackish water or elsewhere.

To me this is validation of using clean distilled water and I will continue to do so...

Of course, it is prudent to use clean distilled water with occasional cleaning.

The point was that the article was in error and lacking facts. It was an apples and oranges thing, but will always lead to confusion and hysteria in some.

Same for cleaning mask and hose. not necessary to do it all that often.
Our bodies do a god job of taking care of itself.
I did not intend to imply there was a zero risk, only a very small one. Our obsession with bacteria is causing some big problems with our immune systems and emerging pathogens.
We just are not able to fight off infections after being so clean.
Look up the hygeine hypothesis for more info.

and it may just be that the antibiotics that were considered one of the major advances of the 20th century, may just be the doom of us all when the next great plague comes along. Evolution ain't our friend.
I could be wrong.
tom