CPAPtalk.com

There is NO Vaccine for the CAN'T Virus, and it's highly contagious. Jim

Some people have made up their "minds" already.
It appears no amount of logic will change their denial into a readiness to make it work.
Regretfully, we may need to save our energy and let them stampede into the sea.

chunkyfrog wrote:Some people have made up their "minds" already.
It appears no amount of logic will change their denial into a readiness to make it work.
Regretfully, we may need to save our energy and let them stampede into the sea.

That reminded me of something.

The following image appeared on a Far Side calendar page for Monday, January 22, 2001.

One of my co-workers left the page on my desk with a handwritten subtitle "The Survivor".
I made it into a Desktop background image on one of my home computers. It's still there.
Ironically, January 22 is also on a Monday this year.




Den (still trying to survive)

.

Wulfman... wrote:

chunkyfrog wrote:Some people have made up their "minds" already.
It appears no amount of logic will change their denial into a readiness to make it work.
Regretfully, we may need to save our energy and let them stampede into the sea.

That reminded me of something.

The following image appeared on a Far Side calendar page for Monday, January 22, 2001.

One of my co-workers left the page on my desk with a handwritten subtitle "The Survivor".
I made it into a Desktop background image on one of my home computers. It's still there.
Ironically, January 22 is also on a Monday this year.




Den (still trying to survive)

.

Stupid thinking never likes to be alone, they always want others to go with them. Jim

Goofproof wrote:Stupid thinking never likes to be alone, they always want others to go with them. Jim

Interestingly or maybe coincidentally, this is where I found that image:

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/07/10/ ... of-crowds/


Den

.

Since the jaw is a lever, tissue above the fulcrum would be pushed in but tissue below would be pulled out. Depending on where the obstruction is, it seems possible this would help.

Because of my physiology, my mouth tends to stay wide open during the night. I’m going to experiment for a few nights by wearing a chin strap and seeing if my numbers (pressure or ahi) change.

I will report back. Even if it lets me lower the pressure by a couple points it would be a benefit.

Please, for goodness sake, google TMJ.

chunkyfrog wrote:Please, for goodness sake, google TMJ.

Since the joint is so high up, that supports my point even more.

First night wearing a chin strap seemed to be an improvement.

Goofproof wrote:

49er wrote:

chunkyfrog wrote:The real scams are alternative treatments.
(Not listed here for space considerations)
We KNOW that cpap/apap works--end of story.

CF,

Pap therapy does not work for everyone in spite of their best efforts. To say that alternative treatments like dental devices, sleep apnea surgeries like the Inspire Procedure and MMA advancement surgery don't work is more about your biases than looking at the facts. It also a scare tactic than can prevent people from looking at necessary alternatives that they desperately need to prevent further decline from sleep apnea.

Of course, everyone should start with pap therapy and do whatever it takes to make it work. Even reputable sleep apnea surgeons will advise that. And when I investigated the Inspire Procedure, which I didn't qualify for, unfortunately, I don't think I would have been considered unless I had tried pap therapy or used a dental device for a least 6 months.

But the question is how many does someone keep trying before moving on to other methods particularly if it is clear they have done everything possible to optimize their therapy? One, five, ten, twenty, thirty?

That's the Problem: Best Efforts! Most of the ones that fail using XPAP, play at making a Best Effort, but in reality their mindset is De-Nile. Others get caught up in climbing the ladder of more complex XPAPs, that are more difficult to set up correctly, in the end making it harder to find your own Sweet Spot. Many want instant cures, even though they spent over ten years under Sleep Apnea, there are no magic pills, finding what works for you is up to you, it requires effort on your part, but for many Mind Set is the biggest thing that must be overcome, an possible the most difficult!

All I can say about, most of XPAP failure is caused by NOT making a BEST EFFORT. XPAP failure syndrome, is mostly mind over matter, many as so driven that they can't do something, they train their mind that they can't. A sure way to fail at anything you try, don't TRY, DO! Jim

I agree.
What I like to remind people is that they got used to sleeping without air nearly every minute, so they can also get used to treatment.
To quote the legendary xxyzx; "you don't get to choose the therapy that works best for you, only those that don't."

I think the common “give it more time” advice isn’t good, I think much better advice would be to keep trying things. With the chin strap, I now apply 3 devices to my head. FYI I’m not up this late, I’m on Philippines time.

FlyingMoose wrote:I think the common “give it more time” advice isn’t good, I think much better advice would be to keep trying things. With the chin strap, I now apply 3 devices to my head. FYI I’m not up this late, I’m on Philippines time.

Agree.
Giving it more time has to have bounds. Many people seem to have too much patients for failure. Seven data points is enough data to draw a conclusion. Fine tuning requires more data but most people are not struggling with fine tuning issues - they are struggling with major issues.

FlyingMoose wrote:I think the common “give it more time” advice isn’t good, I think much better advice would be to keep trying things.

It depends on what is going on when we say "give it time".
If the AHI is great...and leaks are well managed and there's nothing that is obviously needing to be improvemend upon then what are you trying to fix by "keep trying things"?
Obviously if there is a serious problem that needs fixing either major leaks or way too many apnea events happening then giving more time without addressing the problem isn't a smart thing.

There is some truth to the "give it time" thing but we don't suggest that unless everything else at least appears optimal.
No amount of time will fix sub optimal pressures or major leaks all by themselves. We know that.
Now just getting used to the alien being stuck on our face and blowing air up our nose...sometimes that simply requires some time for the brain to get okay with its new best friend.

So sometimes "give it time" is the appropriate thing to do. The brain doesn't like to be always subjected to change. It likes nice normal predictable stuff and when people change stuff all the time the brain never gets to where it knows what to expect and its new "normal".

I've been using the chin strap for 12 nights.

The previous 12 nights without it my AHI averaged 1.78, and the 12 with it 1.51. Also, with it I had 4 nights with <1 AHI, vs none without it. The scores started out high and continue to come down as I get used to it.

I think it does help, but I'll need to try it longer to know for sure.

There are a lot scams around cpap and the industry does make a lot of money.
The extremely high rates of failure of cpap are ignored and major problems people have with this high profit treatment are ignored and patients told to keep trying keep trying adnausium.

The first sleep doctor ignored the Respiratory issues ie asthma and airway problems got these corrected and then found that allergies were a big part of the problem ie sinusitis causing mouth breathing and swollen throat and thus apneas.

When I do not have sinusitis I sleep well now and wake up rested .
If I had not got proper treatment of associated issues I would still be struggling .

Go see proper doctors as well ,not just "sleep specialists " get all of your problems sorted ie Respiratory doctor plus ent surgeon plus asthma specialist, plus lose weight plus get fit .

Do not keep struggling with apap or cpap alone ...that is the "con".

Zombie thread alert folks.